24P Question

[Steven Gotz]

Eric,

There is a lot more to the cinematic look when shooting video than just the progressive footage at a lower frame rate.

However, you can shoot 24f and capture with Aspect HD and get great results. But if you want film out then the people who do that are better off using 60i since that is more normal for them.

If you already have 60i and you just want to deinterlace the footage, you can do that with DVFilm Maker ( http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/index.htm ) or After Effects or even just choose to deinterlace right inside Premiere Pro.

[Eric Edwards]

Hey Steve, thanks for the info...

I do have a question for you though, all info thus far kind of thrown aside...

My goal is to achieve a clear image and fluid motion...but not fast motion that you see on regular video...more of that surreal motion that tends to be more on films...regardless of frame rate, this is what im trying to achieve. So in your best opinion and knowledge, what would you suggest in filming with my fx1 to achieve a clear image (no ghosting, or interlaced lines) and very fluid motion...but not too fast of motion to the point where it looks like video.

Thanks Steve, and I appreciate the comments so far, they've been helpful and im going to give the regular 60i thing a try with de-interlacing and see what happens.

[Christopher Witz]

here's the workflows and results I've tried with the z1/fx1....

CF24..... to juddery..... loss in res.

CF30.... good film look studder..... slight loss in res.

60i > nattress..... verygood film look.... very slight loss in res

60i > -40 speed > +60 speed > deinterlace/24 export ..... slight loss in rez.... very good film look.


cf30 is the quickest to final..... time is money right?

60i > nattress is the best results..... but times hours of rendering.

[Steven Gotz]

I have not really experimented with it much, but if you try shooting in 24f and capturing with Aspect HD as 24p, you might be happy with the results. Give it a try.

[Steven White]

In either CF24 or CF30 modes you have to be careful with the FX1 - It's best to set your shutter at 1/60 unless you're going for a "strobing" effect in the first place.

You also have to be extremely careful with your camera motion. Any rapid camera motion will result in a very strobed image - not because of poor motion estimation or some wonky setting, but because the depth of field is so deep on the FX1 that everything stays in relative focus.

If you follow a 1/60th shutter and aren't too wild with your camera movement, people will have a very difficult time differentiating between CF24 and true 24p.

CF30 is more forgiving than CF24 for three reasons:
1) You have 6 more frames per second.
2) The 1/60th is a longer relative exposure per frame.
3) The motion between frames has an smooth cadence.

If you want to save time, produce a 24p output, have a frame-accurate edit, and don't want to buy another camera (there are a lot more 24p options now than when the FX1 came out), I would recommend using CF24 and AspectHD to do a pull-down removal on capture.

-Steve

[Eric Edwards]

I shot 3 previous films on 24f and removed pulldown with cineform...which the results were pretty good, I kept shutter at 1/60 and I was very much pleased with the performance with still shots and not much motion, but I still must say that with motion, even slight as it might have been, it just didnt do the job...

And Chris...I havent really heard of nattress, is that similiar to Cineform to convert 60i to to a progress format, or could you ellabortae on this for me, because I dont mind spending hours rending...I seem to do that now with 3d animation and effects on film...so I wouldnt mind looking into this option.

[Brian Tori]

If I use aspect hd to extract the true 24 frames from my hv20, will the audio that was captured in the 60i stream be out of sync with the picture after conversion?

[David Newman]

No, audio is in sync as it still plays at 48k samples per second. The conversion from 60i to 24p does change the video playback rate.

[Hugh Mobley]

When I capture using cineform neo hdv there is a setting for the pulldown using 24p, however, does this setting work with 24pa which requires a 2332 pulldown, or am I reading this wrong. I am using a HVR V1 and Vegas 7

[David Newman]

NEO can handle either 2323 or 2332 pulldown automatically. On a technical side the Sony V1U "24pa" is not 2332 -- all confusing, the main point it is it all works in NEO.

[Hugh Mobley]

Yes it is confusing depending on which forum and who is answering, Just wondering on the V1 setting 24pa, I didn't notice any difference when capturing thru neo hdv. I often wonder sometimes if we all try to get too technical on all this stuff. I want to know as much as possible but sometime its gets out of hand.

[David Newman]

The Sony 24pa mode simply add a frame more frames on the end of each clip to help some "native" m2t edits -- has zero impact on CineForm.

[James Campbell]

If I've already captured my V1U and HV20 footage with Cineform using the pulldown, and I'm rendering down to DV via Sony Vegas and using the template for DVDA 24P, would I use template for 23.976 AND pulldown again or just 23.976 and uncheck the pulldown box?

[David Newman]

I would say no pulldown. Vegas wizzes should know more. Try both and observe the results.

[James Campbell]

DVDA 24p template WITHOUT pulldown again appears the way to go. Thanks much for the timely response.