loud band no mixer at DVinfo.net

Dan O'Bannon · March 7th, 2003, 03:50 PM

Maybe one of you guys can help me out. I 'm doing a shoot tonight of a loud band, with an XL1s. All I have is the std. on board mike and an Azden Shotgun SGM2x with the long and short barrel. Should I try to use the Azden with the short barrel (wider pickup patern) and attach it to the camera or should I stick with the std. on board mike. There is no mixer board to hook up to. Also should I set to line in or mic in the menu, or att.?

Thanks for your time, Dan O'Bannon

Don Palomaki · March 8th, 2003, 06:48 AM

As a minimum you will probably want to use the MIC ATT setting.

Do you want stereo or mono? If stereo, you need the onboard mic, or a third party mic like the AT822 or Sony ECM-MS957.

The Azden SGM-2X is rated for a sound pressure level of 110 dB, not a very high level. The peak sound levels is likely to be well above that at typical rock (or even classical orchestra) concert levels.

While I have not seen a max SPL rating for the XL1 standard mic. In some tests of the AGC system I noted waveform clipping at around 106 dB SPL at the MIC setting. I did not specifically test for clipping level at the MIC ATT setting, but I would expect it somewhere in the range of 115-125 dB or so.

See http://ceae.colorado.edu/~muehleis/c...splhandout.pdf for a table of typical sound pressure levels.

Dan O'Bannon · March 8th, 2003, 02:42 PM

Thanks Don, I did use the onboard mike and set at MIC ATT, manual with very low input volume level, playback sounds pretty good. ( it was very loud, glad I had my head set) If I run this sound into my Avid system and look at the wave form is there any way I can tell at what dB I recorded at and if it is clipping or not?

Thanks again, Dan O'Bannon

K. Forman · March 8th, 2003, 09:33 PM

If you plan on doing music related video, you really need to get some simple equipment-

A decent audio mixer/recorder. I used the Korg D12, for example. It had several xlr / 1/4" jacks, 12 channels and sliders, and a 4 gig HD that could hold up to 18 hrs of cd quality digital audio. It could plug into most house boards, or directly to mics or instruments. I only wish it had a battery back up. Fuses pop... all audio is lost... panic and mayhem ensues... It happens, plan on a back up.

Several decent mics, various types. A wireless Lav would work on a vocalist, but a handheld mic would be better. Get a decent selection of cables with xlr fittings, and another with 1/4". These are the standard in music, and not hard to work with. Get a variety of adapters, cause ya just never know.

The reason you should have these things, is to make it better and easier. Better quality for the clients, less headaches and work for you. Another reason is, they almost never have it for you to use. Sure, it can be done with less. But with music, getting the audio right is actually AS important as the picture.
Good luck with this

Dan O'Bannon · March 8th, 2003, 11:51 PM

Thanks Keith, where could I pick up a mixer like the Korg D12?

Dan

K. Forman · March 9th, 2003, 06:44 AM

Go online and shop first. Then, armed with details and an idea of what you want, try music stores. Your larger stores, like Sam Ash, should have something similar, or might be able to order it.

Whatever you decide on, try to make sure it has a battery backup!!!!!! It will save you!

Don Palomaki · March 9th, 2003, 06:55 AM

Bands come and go - and they often sell their used gear ar a fraction of the new cost. It is possible to get bargains on audio gear (and to get junk as well - rock musicians never abuse their gear) so shop with care.

To assess record levels, watch the UV meter on the XL1. The get precise information, do a firewire capture of the video. Using your NLE, and without adjusting the audio levels, export the audio to a wav file. Open the wav file with audio editing software, such as CoolEdit or SoundForge and observe the waveform and peaks. Some programs will analyze the waveform and give you data on average and peak levels, as well as possible digital clipping in the recorder.

To help assess clipping in the stuff before the camcorders audio record section, look at audio peaks in the waveform. Zoom in and check for flattened tops of the waveform peaks. This is not precise except for fairly gross clipping, so let your ears be the judge.

Dan O'Bannon · March 9th, 2003, 01:35 PM

All good advice guys,

Thank You! Dan O'Bannon

March 7th, 2003, 03:50 PM	#1
Dan O'Bannon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 68	loud band no mixer Maybe one of you guys can help me out. I 'm doing a shoot tonight of a loud band, with an XL1s. All I have is the std. on board mike and an Azden Shotgun SGM2x with the long and short barrel. Should I try to use the Azden with the short barrel (wider pickup patern) and attach it to the camera or should I stick with the std. on board mike. There is no mixer board to hook up to. Also should I set to line in or mic in the menu, or att.? Thanks for your time, Dan O'Bannon

March 8th, 2003, 06:48 AM	#2
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	As a minimum you will probably want to use the MIC ATT setting. Do you want stereo or mono? If stereo, you need the onboard mic, or a third party mic like the AT822 or Sony ECM-MS957. The Azden SGM-2X is rated for a sound pressure level of 110 dB, not a very high level. The peak sound levels is likely to be well above that at typical rock (or even classical orchestra) concert levels. While I have not seen a max SPL rating for the XL1 standard mic. In some tests of the AGC system I noted waveform clipping at around 106 dB SPL at the MIC setting. I did not specifically test for clipping level at the MIC ATT setting, but I would expect it somewhere in the range of 115-125 dB or so. See http://ceae.colorado.edu/~muehleis/c...splhandout.pdf for a table of typical sound pressure levels.

March 8th, 2003, 02:42 PM	#3
Dan O'Bannon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 68	Thanks Don, I did use the onboard mike and set at MIC ATT, manual with very low input volume level, playback sounds pretty good. ( it was very loud, glad I had my head set) If I run this sound into my Avid system and look at the wave form is there any way I can tell at what dB I recorded at and if it is clipping or not? Thanks again, Dan O'Bannon

March 8th, 2003, 09:33 PM	#4
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	If you plan on doing music related video, you really need to get some simple equipment- A decent audio mixer/recorder. I used the Korg D12, for example. It had several xlr / 1/4" jacks, 12 channels and sliders, and a 4 gig HD that could hold up to 18 hrs of cd quality digital audio. It could plug into most house boards, or directly to mics or instruments. I only wish it had a battery back up. Fuses pop... all audio is lost... panic and mayhem ensues... It happens, plan on a back up. Several decent mics, various types. A wireless Lav would work on a vocalist, but a handheld mic would be better. Get a decent selection of cables with xlr fittings, and another with 1/4". These are the standard in music, and not hard to work with. Get a variety of adapters, cause ya just never know. The reason you should have these things, is to make it better and easier. Better quality for the clients, less headaches and work for you. Another reason is, they almost never have it for you to use. Sure, it can be done with less. But with music, getting the audio right is actually AS important as the picture. Good luck with this

March 8th, 2003, 11:51 PM	#5
Dan O'Bannon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 68	Thanks Keith, where could I pick up a mixer like the Korg D12? Dan

March 9th, 2003, 06:44 AM	#6
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Go online and shop first. Then, armed with details and an idea of what you want, try music stores. Your larger stores, like Sam Ash, should have something similar, or might be able to order it. Whatever you decide on, try to make sure it has a battery backup!!!!!! It will save you!

March 9th, 2003, 06:55 AM	#7
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Bands come and go - and they often sell their used gear ar a fraction of the new cost. It is possible to get bargains on audio gear (and to get junk as well - rock musicians never abuse their gear) so shop with care. To assess record levels, watch the UV meter on the XL1. The get precise information, do a firewire capture of the video. Using your NLE, and without adjusting the audio levels, export the audio to a wav file. Open the wav file with audio editing software, such as CoolEdit or SoundForge and observe the waveform and peaks. Some programs will analyze the waveform and give you data on average and peak levels, as well as possible digital clipping in the recorder. To help assess clipping in the stuff before the camcorders audio record section, look at audio peaks in the waveform. Zoom in and check for flattened tops of the waveform peaks. This is not precise except for fairly gross clipping, so let your ears be the judge.

March 9th, 2003, 01:35 PM	#8
Dan O'Bannon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 68	All good advice guys, Thank You! Dan O'Bannon