New XL1s has a lot of Video noise at DVinfo.net

September 23rd, 2001, 12:26 PM

Anyone here using the XL1s.
I Have seen my new XL1s has a lot of Video noise using a 50 watt light in the reception.
I look at some older film I shot with my XL1 that I shot before I sold it and It looks better than the new XL1s.
It all most looks like they put the smaller chips in the XL1s that are in the GL1. I shot the XL1s and the GL1 side by side and they look about the same and the sound in the XL1s sounds like crap.
I think the XL1 looks better than the XL1s.

Help if you can.

If any seen the same thing it the XL1s let me know.

Mark

October 7th, 2001, 12:35 AM

My XL1s has a number of defects, including sporadic failure to hold focus for brief periods (10-20 frames) and problems in setting the white balance. With the standard 16X lens, the image quality of the XL1s is clearly inferior to that of my GL1! I have sent my XL1s to Canon for diagnosis and correction; but in view of the several negative reports on the XL1s already posted here, I am worried.

October 10th, 2001, 12:17 PM

Canon Factory Service returned my XL1s with a note tersely reporting the unit had been tested and had been found to be operating at "factory specifications." This despite the fact that I had sent a tape showing intermittent loss of focus and several clips comparing the same images taken by the XL1s and my GL1 side-by-side, in which the inferiority of the XL1s images is strikingly apparent.

Anyone thinking about buying an XL1s should be warned.

October 10th, 2001, 03:33 PM

I'm getting really worried now, because tomorrow afternoon I'm going to order my new xl1s. I have already sold my xl1 (it was a great camera!). Your bad experencies are going to stop my decision for a while...? I have read lots of spec. and articles about the new xl1s, and everywhere I saw how people say that the xl1s' picture quality is better than the xl1's picture. I could not wait to go to the vendor tomorrow, and now...? I know that the decision is up to me. I am in a PAL country, and I don't know if the PAL xl1s has teh same problem of your xl1s'... The fact is that I cannot taste it here, I have just to order it and stop!
Anyway it's interesting to hear about your experiences, and I'm sorry if you find them so bad :(
My best regards,
Mic

October 10th, 2001, 05:06 PM

Just picked up my XL1-S late August and have been
shooting 2-3 times weekly since then. Just completed "principal" on my first short film.
Indoors, outdoors, low-light/night, you name it!(6 miles into the forest for the final confrontation scene.^_^) and the XL1-S captured beautiful images everywhere I went.

Far superior to the XL1 and the Gl1 (which we used for B-roll footage on all the aforementioned locations.)

Our cinematographer has logged over 800 hrs on the original XL1, and he can't stop "yappin!" about how great the new one is, as it pretty much caters to DP's.

The new chips/color/black level control are making this camera a great buy! True, the color viewfinder still sucks, and the standard 16X lens sucks for moviemaking (We are purchasing the new 16X manual lens as soon as it becomes available.)

Anyway, that's my 2 cents...^_^

October 10th, 2001, 06:06 PM

nbpjaroch7
you don't see the the new xl1s has more video grain than the xl1 in +12 db mode. I know its not my xl1s cuz its the second xl1s i got. and they both do the same thing. The old xl1 did show grain but not as much as the new xl1s.

Mark

October 10th, 2001, 09:38 PM

I'll have to check it out.
We shot some grainy +6db at a bar late night, and I'd have to check it against the XL1 footage.

Typically I never shoot w/gain boost, I always light the scene, so you're prolly right on the gain difference.

As for typical shooting, I stay on -3db and at worst 0 db to keep my blacks...very black. ^_^

I'll be shooting some night scenes this weekend, I'll try to test it out.
-Justin

October 10th, 2001, 09:59 PM

Great let me know what you get.

October 11th, 2001, 09:39 AM

Since posting my first message, I have tested both the 16X IS II lens and the 3X wide angle lens with my XL1s. The 3X lens produces good images, at least equivalent to those of my GL1, with no focusing problems. But the 16X lens intermittently slips out of focus (when on automatic focus); and, in fact, it will not actually produce a sharp focus under any conditions. Images taken with the 16X lens are conspicuously inferior to those taken with the 3x lens or the GL1. CONCLUSION: My 16X IS II is a defective unit -- and in light of reports by others of superior performance of this lens, I conclude that the problem is not a generic one.

I still remain severly disapponted (to say the least) that the Canon Factory Service Center returned my XL1s without making any repairs and with no comment other than it "is operating at factory specs." -- despite the fact that I had sent a tape clearly illustrating the inferior quality of the XL1s images taken with the 16x lens.

I have explained the situation to Canon Customer Service and am now waiting for a response.

Alex Dolgin · October 11th, 2001, 11:24 AM

<But the 16X lens intermittently slips out of focus (when on automatic focus);
Just to be fair, they did not invent a perfect automatic focus yet. While some of them work better than others, all of them will loose it now and then, especially in low light and/or moving subject. If you expect the service dept. to fix it, you would be disappointed.
When I purchased the XL1s, and still had the older XL1 before it was sold, I tested them side by side. I found the auto focus was about the same, with the XL1S slight advantage in low light as it is more sensitive, and can focus faster in low light.
Alex

Barry Goyette · October 11th, 2001, 08:03 PM

I read with great interest rkspiano's messages concerning his comparison of the gl1 and xl1s camera's....I have seen the same issue with my cameras, at first I thought I was going nuts... the xl1s does not seem to come into sharp focus and looks definitely soft when compared to my gl1. I spoke with canon when I first noticed the problem, and several tech people said that in no way should the the GL1 look better...but I have tried everything, and can't make my xl1s look as sharp...one suspicion I still have is that the Gl1 artificially sharpens the image somewhat... also the difference seems more apparent in the hallowed "frame" mode...I did some resolution tests which were inconclusive but my sense is that in normal movie mode the image was about the same on both camera's whereas in frame mode the xl1s appeared softer than the gl1....I'm still mulling over sending in my camera to canon, although it appears that hasn't been successful.

Michael Pappas · October 12th, 2001, 11:42 AM

Can you post comparison jpegs of the GL1 and XL1s?

michael

<<<-- Originally posted by barrygoyette : I read with great interest rkspiano's messages concerning his comparison of the gl1 and xl1s camera's....I have seen the same issue with my cameras, at first I thought I was going nuts... the xl1s does not seem to come into sharp focus and looks definitely soft when compared to my gl1. I spoke with canon when I first noticed the problem, and several tech people said that in no way should the the GL1 look better...but I have tried everything, and can't make my xl1s look as sharp...one suspicion I still have is that the Gl1 artificially sharpens the image somewhat... also the difference seems more apparent in the hallowed "frame" mode...I did some resolution tests which were inconclusive but my sense is that in normal movie mode the image was about the same on both camera's whereas in frame mode the xl1s appeared softer than the gl1....I'm still mulling over sending in my camera to canon, although it appears that hasn't been successful. -->>>

Barry Goyette · October 12th, 2001, 02:53 PM

Micheal

apparently, attachments cannot be posted to this forum, and my website is not up and running yet...if you forward your email address, I will try to send you something in the next week.

Barry

Michael Pappas · October 12th, 2001, 05:30 PM

Ok! Arrfilms@hotmail.com. Maybe Chris will put them up in the watchdog. Right Chris, and in full res too!

<<<-- Originally posted by barrygoyette : Micheal

apparently, attachments cannot be posted to this forum, and my website is not up and running yet...if you forward your email address, I will try to send you something in the next week.

Barry -->>>

October 13th, 2001, 12:56 AM

Since my last post, I have further tested my 16X lens, with encouragig results. With the sharpness level set just one step above (+) the default (i.e., mid) level, the lens yields images at least as good as my GL1 and the focusing problems I reported are eliminated. In moderately bright daylight, I was able to obtain some truly beautiful shots that may well be superior to any I have ever obtained with the GL1. (I have not yet tested the lens in very weak light.)

But when sharpness is set at the default level, the 16X lens has great difficulty holding focus, especially at f2 but even at f10. Moreover, the images are uncomfortable to watch because they are never really sharply in focus except for very brief, random intervals.

Incidentally, I had a very prompt and concerned response from Canon Customer Service, which resulted in a call from one of the chief
technical people at Canon Factory Service who has arranged to have my XL1s and the 16X lens retested, with shipping charges paid by Canon. Consequently, my faith in, and good opinion of, Canon has been fully restored!

September 23rd, 2001, 12:26 PM	#1
MTC FILMS Posts: n/a	New XL1s has a lot of Video noise Anyone here using the XL1s. I Have seen my new XL1s has a lot of Video noise using a 50 watt light in the reception. I look at some older film I shot with my XL1 that I shot before I sold it and It looks better than the new XL1s. It all most looks like they put the smaller chips in the XL1s that are in the GL1. I shot the XL1s and the GL1 side by side and they look about the same and the sound in the XL1s sounds like crap. I think the XL1 looks better than the XL1s. Help if you can. If any seen the same thing it the XL1s let me know. Mark

October 7th, 2001, 12:35 AM	#2
rkspiano Posts: n/a	New XL1s has a lot of Video noise My XL1s has a number of defects, including sporadic failure to hold focus for brief periods (10-20 frames) and problems in setting the white balance. With the standard 16X lens, the image quality of the XL1s is clearly inferior to that of my GL1! I have sent my XL1s to Canon for diagnosis and correction; but in view of the several negative reports on the XL1s already posted here, I am worried.

October 10th, 2001, 03:33 PM	#4
micsanzo Posts: n/a	xl1s video noise? OMG! I'm getting really worried now, because tomorrow afternoon I'm going to order my new xl1s. I have already sold my xl1 (it was a great camera!). Your bad experencies are going to stop my decision for a while...? I have read lots of spec. and articles about the new xl1s, and everywhere I saw how people say that the xl1s' picture quality is better than the xl1's picture. I could not wait to go to the vendor tomorrow, and now...? I know that the decision is up to me. I am in a PAL country, and I don't know if the PAL xl1s has teh same problem of your xl1s'... The fact is that I cannot taste it here, I have just to order it and stop! Anyway it's interesting to hear about your experiences, and I'm sorry if you find them so bad :( My best regards, Mic

October 10th, 2001, 05:06 PM	#5
nbpjaroch7 Posts: n/a	XL1-S incredible video capture so far! Just picked up my XL1-S late August and have been shooting 2-3 times weekly since then. Just completed "principal" on my first short film. Indoors, outdoors, low-light/night, you name it!(6 miles into the forest for the final confrontation scene.^_^) and the XL1-S captured beautiful images everywhere I went. Far superior to the XL1 and the Gl1 (which we used for B-roll footage on all the aforementioned locations.) Our cinematographer has logged over 800 hrs on the original XL1, and he can't stop "yappin!" about how great the new one is, as it pretty much caters to DP's. The new chips/color/black level control are making this camera a great buy! True, the color viewfinder still sucks, and the standard 16X lens sucks for moviemaking (We are purchasing the new 16X manual lens as soon as it becomes available.) Anyway, that's my 2 cents...^_^

October 11th, 2001, 08:03 PM	#11
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	xl1s vs. gl1 comparison I read with great interest rkspiano's messages concerning his comparison of the gl1 and xl1s camera's....I have seen the same issue with my cameras, at first I thought I was going nuts... the xl1s does not seem to come into sharp focus and looks definitely soft when compared to my gl1. I spoke with canon when I first noticed the problem, and several tech people said that in no way should the the GL1 look better...but I have tried everything, and can't make my xl1s look as sharp...one suspicion I still have is that the Gl1 artificially sharpens the image somewhat... also the difference seems more apparent in the hallowed "frame" mode...I did some resolution tests which were inconclusive but my sense is that in normal movie mode the image was about the same on both camera's whereas in frame mode the xl1s appeared softer than the gl1....I'm still mulling over sending in my camera to canon, although it appears that hasn't been successful.

October 10th, 2001, 12:17 PM	#3
rkspiano Posts: n/a	Canon Factory Service returned my XL1s with a note tersely reporting the unit had been tested and had been found to be operating at "factory specifications." This despite the fact that I had sent a tape showing intermittent loss of focus and several clips comparing the same images taken by the XL1s and my GL1 side-by-side, in which the inferiority of the XL1s images is strikingly apparent. Anyone thinking about buying an XL1s should be warned.

October 10th, 2001, 06:06 PM	#6
MTC FILMS Posts: n/a	nbpjaroch7 you don't see the the new xl1s has more video grain than the xl1 in +12 db mode. I know its not my xl1s cuz its the second xl1s i got. and they both do the same thing. The old xl1 did show grain but not as much as the new xl1s. Mark

October 10th, 2001, 09:38 PM	#7
nbpjaroch7 Posts: n/a	I'll have to check it out. We shot some grainy +6db at a bar late night, and I'd have to check it against the XL1 footage. Typically I never shoot w/gain boost, I always light the scene, so you're prolly right on the gain difference. As for typical shooting, I stay on -3db and at worst 0 db to keep my blacks...very black. ^_^ I'll be shooting some night scenes this weekend, I'll try to test it out. -Justin

October 10th, 2001, 09:59 PM	#8
MTC FILMS Posts: n/a	Great let me know what you get.

October 11th, 2001, 09:39 AM	#9
rkspiano Posts: n/a	Since posting my first message, I have tested both the 16X IS II lens and the 3X wide angle lens with my XL1s. The 3X lens produces good images, at least equivalent to those of my GL1, with no focusing problems. But the 16X lens intermittently slips out of focus (when on automatic focus); and, in fact, it will not actually produce a sharp focus under any conditions. Images taken with the 16X lens are conspicuously inferior to those taken with the 3x lens or the GL1. CONCLUSION: My 16X IS II is a defective unit -- and in light of reports by others of superior performance of this lens, I conclude that the problem is not a generic one. I still remain severly disapponted (to say the least) that the Canon Factory Service Center returned my XL1s without making any repairs and with no comment other than it "is operating at factory specs." -- despite the fact that I had sent a tape clearly illustrating the inferior quality of the XL1s images taken with the 16x lens. I have explained the situation to Canon Customer Service and am now waiting for a response.

October 11th, 2001, 11:24 AM	#10
Alex Dolgin Contributor Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lexington, Ma Posts: 286	<But the 16X lens intermittently slips out of focus (when on automatic focus); Just to be fair, they did not invent a perfect automatic focus yet. While some of them work better than others, all of them will loose it now and then, especially in low light and/or moving subject. If you expect the service dept. to fix it, you would be disappointed. When I purchased the XL1s, and still had the older XL1 before it was sold, I tested them side by side. I found the auto focus was about the same, with the XL1S slight advantage in low light as it is more sensitive, and can focus faster in low light. Alex

October 12th, 2001, 11:42 AM	#12
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Re: xl1s vs. gl1 comparison Can you post comparison jpegs of the GL1 and XL1s? michael <<<-- Originally posted by barrygoyette : I read with great interest rkspiano's messages concerning his comparison of the gl1 and xl1s camera's....I have seen the same issue with my cameras, at first I thought I was going nuts... the xl1s does not seem to come into sharp focus and looks definitely soft when compared to my gl1. I spoke with canon when I first noticed the problem, and several tech people said that in no way should the the GL1 look better...but I have tried everything, and can't make my xl1s look as sharp...one suspicion I still have is that the Gl1 artificially sharpens the image somewhat... also the difference seems more apparent in the hallowed "frame" mode...I did some resolution tests which were inconclusive but my sense is that in normal movie mode the image was about the same on both camera's whereas in frame mode the xl1s appeared softer than the gl1....I'm still mulling over sending in my camera to canon, although it appears that hasn't been successful. -->>>

October 12th, 2001, 02:53 PM	#13
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	gl-1, xl1 jpegs Micheal apparently, attachments cannot be posted to this forum, and my website is not up and running yet...if you forward your email address, I will try to send you something in the next week. Barry

October 12th, 2001, 05:30 PM	#14
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Re: gl-1, xl1 jpegs Ok! Arrfilms@hotmail.com. Maybe Chris will put them up in the watchdog. Right Chris, and in full res too! <<<-- Originally posted by barrygoyette : Micheal apparently, attachments cannot be posted to this forum, and my website is not up and running yet...if you forward your email address, I will try to send you something in the next week. Barry -->>>

October 13th, 2001, 12:56 AM	#15
rkspiano Posts: n/a	Since my last post, I have further tested my 16X lens, with encouragig results. With the sharpness level set just one step above (+) the default (i.e., mid) level, the lens yields images at least as good as my GL1 and the focusing problems I reported are eliminated. In moderately bright daylight, I was able to obtain some truly beautiful shots that may well be superior to any I have ever obtained with the GL1. (I have not yet tested the lens in very weak light.) But when sharpness is set at the default level, the 16X lens has great difficulty holding focus, especially at f2 but even at f10. Moreover, the images are uncomfortable to watch because they are never really sharply in focus except for very brief, random intervals. Incidentally, I had a very prompt and concerned response from Canon Customer Service, which resulted in a call from one of the chief technical people at Canon Factory Service who has arranged to have my XL1s and the 16X lens retested, with shipping charges paid by Canon. Consequently, my faith in, and good opinion of, Canon has been fully restored!