time code out in camera mode

[Dan Murphy]

I'm using an XL1. I want to get video with time code from the camera when it is recording. My goal is to log tapes in real-time during the shoot. I'm using a PC software package called "Log This" to create a log and Final Cut Pro EDL.

I first tried the DV out to a PC firewire card. In camera mode(s), the audio and video came through, but no time code. In VTR mode, the DV signal includes time code.

I called Canon tech support. They told me there is no time code in the DV signal when the camera is recording. Why would that be the case? Is this a DV standard, generally unnecessary or a limitation of the camera? Is this really a PC hardware/driver problem? (Three calls to Canon produced 2 different answers!)

What about the analog video outputs on the camera? If I use one of them, will the video signal contain time code? I notice there is a LANC output, will that work? It seems ridiculous to shoot with an DV camera, use the analog output and then convert it back to DV for the computer--but I want to get this working.

Keep in mind, I need the actual time code and not just the time code reading displayed in the frame. Time code on an audio track is out of the question--the software I'm using can't read it. The software supports both VITC and LTC.

My apologies if this a recurring newbie question. I read all the relevant threads I could find, and if it has been addressed, the discussion was over my head.

Thanks,

Dan

[Don Palomaki]

The timecode for the XL1 (and most other consumer/prosumer MiniDV camcorders) is derived from the start point of the recording on tape, not the time-of-day, so if if not recording to tape there is no time code in the signal. This also accounts for the reset of timecode if there is a gap in ther recorded signal on tape.

As far as I know there is no VITC time code on analog output signals either.

Some NLE's can assign a timecode to an IEEE1394 signal if timecode is not present during capture from a live feed.

[Dan Murphy]

Don, thanks for your reply.

Sorry to keep going around on this issue, but I want to see if there is any way possible to do this--and so does my boss (maybe even more than I do).

I understand what you are saying that the time code is reset whenever the camera is shut down, tapes are changed or there is a gap in the recorded signal on the tape. The steps needed to prevent the time code resetting apply to my situation.

I am not expecting the time code to reflect the time of day, just elapsed time relative to the start of recording.

There is a tape in the camera for recording. The video out is simply for logging.

Is this (more or less), the correct path of the video signal when the camera is recording:

CCDs >> DV, S-video, composite video outs* >> time code writer >> video tape

* assuming parallel output and in no particular order

Maybe I'm just refusing to accept the simple truth--it can't be done. If so, I not doubt you, I am just in disbelief.

Thanks,

Dan

[Patrick King]

Dan,

I don't have the XL-1 manual with me, but in the XL-2 Menu, you can select the DISPLAY SETUP option and then the GUIDE INFO option where you can select D/T DISPLAY to write the date time info onto the recorded image. It is NOT timecode that can be read or understood during editing, it only creates a Date/Time stamp on the imagery.

You can also set the TIME CODE in the menu to either COUNT-UP, REC-RUN, REC-RUN PS, or FREE RUN, but I don't know if all those options are availble on the XL-1 also.

[Don Palomaki]

Time code is reset whenever the camcorders starts to record over a blank spot on the tape (tape without any video recorded to it under the heads). As long as there is video signal on the tape under the heads when you go to record, you can turn camcorder on/off, remove and reinsert te tape, etc.

The video image path in the camcorder when in camcorder mode is roughly:

CCD->Analog video processor->A/D converter->digital signal processor->video processor.

The video processor has separate outputs for the signal to the record heads, the IEEE1394 interface curcuits, audio circuits, and the analog video output. (It also has inputs from IEEE1394 interface circuits, audio circuits, and the video heads.)

As far as I can tell the timecode is added by the video processor as part of the subcode info recorded to/read from tape. It appears in the analog video output only as a overlay on the image (text in the image corner) if you have selected to display it. As best i can determine, while recording to tape, the timecode does appear in the IEEE1394 output stream when the tape is rolling and that probably could be read by appropriate logging software.

[Josh Mellicker]

Originally Posted by Don Palomaki

As best i can determine, while recording to tape, the timecode does appear in the IEEE1394 output stream when the tape is rolling and that probably could be read by appropriate logging software.

I can verify this, have done this many times.