Firewire Cable for XL1s

Don Palomaki · January 28th, 2003, 05:35 AM

In general firewire is 4 or 6 conductor. At the camcorder end it is 4-wire. (The 6-wire includes power in the added two conductors.)

Firewire is a high speed balanced serial data cable. Electrically speaking it is a sort of cousin of RS-422 and ethernet, but faster. And the signal protocol (commands, etc.) are different. The speed makes it a bit fussy about the cable used - impedance matching, losses, and that sort of thing to avoid echos, phase delay, and noise on the line that could corrupt the data signal.

Could one splice two firewire cables to make a longer one. Probably, but if not careful one could end up with less than satisfactory results.

Kai Leibrandt · January 28th, 2003, 04:54 PM

Question to Rob;
I have a Dell laptop too (an Inspiron 8200), but for some reason 4-4 pin cables won't work with my non-S XL1 (tried several). What model Dell do you have? I have spoken to Dell and Canon about this but each say the other one's at fault.
Sad result is I lug a Firewire PC-Card around with me, it's got a 6pin connector and works perfectly, but it's not the best solution seeing as the onboard firewire is now out of a job...

Thanks for any help,

Kai.

Scott Silverman · January 28th, 2003, 05:22 PM

I am not sure that I would do that (cutting the wire). It is properly insulated so it doesn't receive any interference, and cutting it would break the insulation (you couldn't mend that back together the same way it originally was), possibly allowing interference. But it might work...I wouldn't do it buy hey, if you end up doing it, post back here to let us know if it works!

Jeff Donald · January 28th, 2003, 10:27 PM

Self powered device (battery or plug into wall outlet) require only a 4 pin, but may be fitted with a 6 pin connection. Unpowered devices need the 6 pin, the extra 2 wires supply power from the buss.

Rob Lohman · January 29th, 2003, 04:11 AM

Kai,

I have a Dell Latitude C800. What OS are you running? I'm running
Windows 2000 Professional. Check to see if the laptop sees
your firewire port at all (it might very well be I had to enable
the port in the Bios first, not sure).

If I go to the Device Manager I see the following device under
IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers:

Texas Instruments OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller.

If you plug the camera in, nothing seems to happen. But if I
startup Premiere I can just control the camera fine (I have
selected the Canon camera in Premiere first though).

Hope this helps you some.

Kai Leibrandt · January 29th, 2003, 04:50 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Kai,

<SNIP>

If you plug the camera in, nothing seems to happen. But if I
startup Premiere I can just control the camera fine (I have
selected the Canon camera in Premiere first though).

Hope this helps you some. -->>>

Ah! Well, I have XP Pro and Avid Xpress DV, and like on yours, my camera doesn't get recognized even though the firewire port is fine. Scenalyzer doesn't see the cam either btw.
The really weird thing is that if I daisy chain the camera through an external FW disk all is well (so 4-6 pin to disk, then 6-4 to camera) - the camera gets detected and I can control it from Avid...
So, I'll try to install Premiere and see if that makes a difference...
Thanks for your help!

Kai.

Rob Lohman · January 29th, 2003, 10:48 AM

Can't you just leave it daisy chained then? My gut says this has
something todo with how XP handles things....

Good luck!

Kai Leibrandt · January 29th, 2003, 04:27 PM

Well, I don't really want to lug around a disk and it's power supply (as it can't be powered by the bus because of the 4-pin connector on the laptop), and besides - it's supposed to work without one, it's what I paid for...
Oh and btw, it's not XP, as Windows 2K and Linux have the same problem, so I'm rather suspecting the hardware on the Dell side of the cable. I'm trying another laptop from a friend tomorrow, different make etc, so that will clinch the issue who's at fault...
Many thanks for letting me pick your brain!

K.

Rob Lohman · January 29th, 2003, 06:15 PM

It might very well be a problem on your laptops end. Although
it does sound weird that it works through another device. Weird!

I hope you nail down the problem and get it fixed!!

Kai Leibrandt · January 31st, 2003, 05:15 PM

Just a quick update for those interested; I connected my XL1 to another laptop with integrated (4 pin) firewire. Same deal as with my Inspiron - it wasn't even detected by XP. So it looks like
So my next stop will be the local Canon rep to see if they can figure out if it's anything to do with my camera.

Kailee.

Don Palomaki · February 1st, 2003, 08:36 AM

Some systems like to have the camcorder connected and powered on before the PC is powered on to ensure detection. Also, in some cases driver update and/or OS patches may be needed to ensure detection. Be sure all are up-to-date.

January 28th, 2003, 05:22 PM	#18
Scott Silverman Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cupertino, California, USA Posts: 301	I am not sure that I would do that (cutting the wire). It is properly insulated so it doesn't receive any interference, and cutting it would break the insulation (you couldn't mend that back together the same way it originally was), possibly allowing interference. But it might work...I wouldn't do it buy hey, if you end up doing it, post back here to let us know if it works! __________________ Scott Silverman Shining Star Digital Video Productions Bay Area, CA

January 28th, 2003, 10:27 PM	#19
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Self powered device (battery or plug into wall outlet) require only a 4 pin, but may be fitted with a 6 pin connection. Unpowered devices need the 6 pin, the extra 2 wires supply power from the buss. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 29th, 2003, 04:11 AM	#20
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Kai, I have a Dell Latitude C800. What OS are you running? I'm running Windows 2000 Professional. Check to see if the laptop sees your firewire port at all (it might very well be I had to enable the port in the Bios first, not sure). If I go to the Device Manager I see the following device under IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers: Texas Instruments OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller. If you plug the camera in, nothing seems to happen. But if I startup Premiere I can just control the camera fine (I have selected the Canon camera in Premiere first though). Hope this helps you some. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 29th, 2003, 10:48 AM	#22
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Can't you just leave it daisy chained then? My gut says this has something todo with how XP handles things.... Good luck! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 29th, 2003, 06:15 PM	#24
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	It might very well be a problem on your laptops end. Although it does sound weird that it works through another device. Weird! I hope you nail down the problem and get it fixed!! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 28th, 2003, 05:35 AM	#16
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	In general firewire is 4 or 6 conductor. At the camcorder end it is 4-wire. (The 6-wire includes power in the added two conductors.) Firewire is a high speed balanced serial data cable. Electrically speaking it is a sort of cousin of RS-422 and ethernet, but faster. And the signal protocol (commands, etc.) are different. The speed makes it a bit fussy about the cable used - impedance matching, losses, and that sort of thing to avoid echos, phase delay, and noise on the line that could corrupt the data signal. Could one splice two firewire cables to make a longer one. Probably, but if not careful one could end up with less than satisfactory results.

January 28th, 2003, 04:54 PM	#17
Kai Leibrandt Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 70	Question to Rob; I have a Dell laptop too (an Inspiron 8200), but for some reason 4-4 pin cables won't work with my non-S XL1 (tried several). What model Dell do you have? I have spoken to Dell and Canon about this but each say the other one's at fault. Sad result is I lug a Firewire PC-Card around with me, it's got a 6pin connector and works perfectly, but it's not the best solution seeing as the onboard firewire is now out of a job... Thanks for any help, Kai.

January 29th, 2003, 04:50 AM	#21
Kai Leibrandt Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 70	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Kai, <SNIP> If you plug the camera in, nothing seems to happen. But if I startup Premiere I can just control the camera fine (I have selected the Canon camera in Premiere first though). Hope this helps you some. -->>> Ah! Well, I have XP Pro and Avid Xpress DV, and like on yours, my camera doesn't get recognized even though the firewire port is fine. Scenalyzer doesn't see the cam either btw. The really weird thing is that if I daisy chain the camera through an external FW disk all is well (so 4-6 pin to disk, then 6-4 to camera) - the camera gets detected and I can control it from Avid... So, I'll try to install Premiere and see if that makes a difference... Thanks for your help! Kai.

January 29th, 2003, 04:27 PM	#23
Kai Leibrandt Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 70	Well, I don't really want to lug around a disk and it's power supply (as it can't be powered by the bus because of the 4-pin connector on the laptop), and besides - it's supposed to work without one, it's what I paid for... Oh and btw, it's not XP, as Windows 2K and Linux have the same problem, so I'm rather suspecting the hardware on the Dell side of the cable. I'm trying another laptop from a friend tomorrow, different make etc, so that will clinch the issue who's at fault... Many thanks for letting me pick your brain! K.

January 31st, 2003, 05:15 PM	#25
Kai Leibrandt Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 70	Just a quick update for those interested; I connected my XL1 to another laptop with integrated (4 pin) firewire. Same deal as with my Inspiron - it wasn't even detected by XP. So it looks like So my next stop will be the local Canon rep to see if they can figure out if it's anything to do with my camera. Kailee.

February 1st, 2003, 08:36 AM	#26
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Some systems like to have the camcorder connected and powered on before the PC is powered on to ensure detection. Also, in some cases driver update and/or OS patches may be needed to ensure detection. Be sure all are up-to-date.