Good mic for loud concerts at DVinfo.net

Ryan Spevack · January 4th, 2003, 07:01 PM

Hello. I do live events. Very loud concerts. I just started using my Sennheiser K6 shotgun mic with my XL1s camera. The audio is very washed out. I am trying to capture high quality sound. Is this the right mic to be using for very loud concerts? Or should I be using something else? I say that because I used my mic a few times already. I have to put the setting to manual and audio levels very low to get an audible sound. Even after playback, the audio is still considerably low quality. Is there anything I can do? I have my settings at 16 bit. I set it to auto before however it makes the sound worse so it's better to be in manual. I have the shotgun mic powered through the canon ma100 adapter. Maybe it's my XLR cable? When I used the mic to capture backstage interviews the audio is crisp and clear, however when the concert starts and there is tons of music and it's very loud, the audio is very poor. thanks for your help

Don Palomaki · January 4th, 2003, 07:55 PM

Are you using the MIC ATT setting? If not you probably should because the ME66 has a high output level. In fact, it may be appropriate to use an in-line attenuator with the mic or line input setting in very loud venues.

The ME66 is rated for SPL levels up to around 125 dB or so with the AA battery power and 1% distortion.

That level is about up-close jack-hammer loud (rock concert near the stage speakers?). It also translates to around 1 volt output from the ME66. That would be excessive for the MA-100 and may induce clipping in the MA-100 if you are using it.

Ryan Spevack · January 4th, 2003, 08:02 PM

I cannot put the setting to Mic or Mic ATT. The only setting that works with the shotgun mic is if it's in Audio 1 because of the configuration of the MA-100. According to the directions at least in the Canon manual for external mics using the ma 100.

What exactly is a in-line attenuator? Where do I buy one and how do I use it with this shotgun mic? Also what about the line output setting?

Thanks for your help.

Don Palomaki · January 5th, 2003, 05:47 AM

You can set the Audio 1 (and Audio 2) input sensitivity using the menu, not the switch behind the door. See page 26 and 51 of the XL1s (English) manual. One normally would not use the LNE setting with the MA-100 because the input levels implied by the line setting might be too high for distortion free operation.

The three settings (MIC, MIC ATT20, and LINE) have input sensitivitiies of -55, -35, and -11 dBV respectively).

in-line attenuators is a type of level/volume control that connects 'in-line' with the XLR cable. They often offer attenuation in switch-selectable steps. They are offered by Shure, AT, and others. You can find them at any decent shop that caters to musicians or sells pro audio gear.

Ryan Spevack · January 5th, 2003, 02:24 PM

So I could switch the setting on the menu inside the XL1s to MIC ATT20 which says is good for loud noise while the setting on the external XL1s door is audio 1?

I'll have to get that in-line attenuator for my XLR cable. Do you know anything about the price? Thanks

Jeff Donald · January 5th, 2003, 04:16 PM

Sound Devices http://www.sounddevices.com/products...ml#accessories makes several cables offering various amount of attenuation. They are in the $30 to $40 range. Very high quality construction and materials.

Jeff

Ryan Spevack · January 5th, 2003, 05:01 PM

Which one do you think is best suited for me? I'm not sure which one. The XL40?

Jeff Donald · January 5th, 2003, 05:18 PM

40db is a lot. But I don't do rock concerts, so Don might be the better judge. I sometimes use the XL-15, which offer 15db of attenuation. Catchy names for cables, huh.

Jeff

Don Palomaki · January 6th, 2003, 05:03 AM

The Shure A15AS isa an options. Details at:
http://www.shure.com/accessories/a15as.asp?PN=Problem%20Solvers
Street price should be around US$40.

Ryan Spevack · January 6th, 2003, 11:09 PM

I think I'll get the Shure A15AS. Thanks for all your helpful advice. I appreciate it.

Jim Yang · March 6th, 2003, 02:26 PM

Wouldn't it be better if you got sound directly from the sound board and get audience sound from your camera mic and then put them together?

Marco Leavitt · March 6th, 2003, 11:09 PM

Does turning the levels down on an XLR adapter do the same thing as attenuation? I've always wondered this.

Don Palomaki · March 7th, 2003, 04:57 AM

For all practical purposes turning down the level control is the same as attenuation, although attenuation may imply maintaining impedance match, and the level control in some adaptes may not maintain impedance match - not an issue for most purposes.

The exception may be if there are active electronics (e.g., preamplifiers) ahead of the level control. In this case, turning down the level control would not protect the preamplifiers from a too-high signal that might induce excessive distortion or clipping. Again, not an issue with the commonly discussed adapters with level controls (e.g., Beachtek and Studio One).

Marco Leavitt · March 7th, 2003, 08:54 AM

When you say "ahead of the level control," do you mean:

Mike-Preamp-XLR adapter-Camera

of

Mike-XLR adapter-Preamp (Camera internal)

Don Palomaki · March 7th, 2003, 03:08 PM

Yes, or more specifically:

MIC->Preamp->level control->recorder

This is without regard to how the functions are split among the XLR adapter and camcorder.

January 4th, 2003, 07:01 PM	#1
Ryan Spevack Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 25	Good mic for loud concerts Hello. I do live events. Very loud concerts. I just started using my Sennheiser K6 shotgun mic with my XL1s camera. The audio is very washed out. I am trying to capture high quality sound. Is this the right mic to be using for very loud concerts? Or should I be using something else? I say that because I used my mic a few times already. I have to put the setting to manual and audio levels very low to get an audible sound. Even after playback, the audio is still considerably low quality. Is there anything I can do? I have my settings at 16 bit. I set it to auto before however it makes the sound worse so it's better to be in manual. I have the shotgun mic powered through the canon ma100 adapter. Maybe it's my XLR cable? When I used the mic to capture backstage interviews the audio is crisp and clear, however when the concert starts and there is tons of music and it's very loud, the audio is very poor. thanks for your help

January 4th, 2003, 08:02 PM	#3
Ryan Spevack Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 25	re I cannot put the setting to Mic or Mic ATT. The only setting that works with the shotgun mic is if it's in Audio 1 because of the configuration of the MA-100. According to the directions at least in the Canon manual for external mics using the ma 100. What exactly is a in-line attenuator? Where do I buy one and how do I use it with this shotgun mic? Also what about the line output setting? Thanks for your help.

January 4th, 2003, 07:55 PM	#2
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Are you using the MIC ATT setting? If not you probably should because the ME66 has a high output level. In fact, it may be appropriate to use an in-line attenuator with the mic or line input setting in very loud venues. The ME66 is rated for SPL levels up to around 125 dB or so with the AA battery power and 1% distortion. That level is about up-close jack-hammer loud (rock concert near the stage speakers?). It also translates to around 1 volt output from the ME66. That would be excessive for the MA-100 and may induce clipping in the MA-100 if you are using it.

January 5th, 2003, 05:47 AM	#4
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	You can set the Audio 1 (and Audio 2) input sensitivity using the menu, not the switch behind the door. See page 26 and 51 of the XL1s (English) manual. One normally would not use the LNE setting with the MA-100 because the input levels implied by the line setting might be too high for distortion free operation. The three settings (MIC, MIC ATT20, and LINE) have input sensitivitiies of -55, -35, and -11 dBV respectively). in-line attenuators is a type of level/volume control that connects 'in-line' with the XLR cable. They often offer attenuation in switch-selectable steps. They are offered by Shure, AT, and others. You can find them at any decent shop that caters to musicians or sells pro audio gear.

January 5th, 2003, 02:24 PM	#5
Ryan Spevack Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 25	So I could switch the setting on the menu inside the XL1s to MIC ATT20 which says is good for loud noise while the setting on the external XL1s door is audio 1? I'll have to get that in-line attenuator for my XLR cable. Do you know anything about the price? Thanks

January 5th, 2003, 04:16 PM	#6
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Sound Devices http://www.sounddevices.com/products...ml#accessories makes several cables offering various amount of attenuation. They are in the $30 to $40 range. Very high quality construction and materials. Jeff

January 5th, 2003, 05:01 PM	#7
Ryan Spevack Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 25	Which one do you think is best suited for me? I'm not sure which one. The XL40?

January 5th, 2003, 05:18 PM	#8
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	40db is a lot. But I don't do rock concerts, so Don might be the better judge. I sometimes use the XL-15, which offer 15db of attenuation. Catchy names for cables, huh. Jeff

January 6th, 2003, 05:03 AM	#9
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	The Shure A15AS isa an options. Details at: http://www.shure.com/accessories/a15as.asp?PN=Problem%20Solvers Street price should be around US$40.

January 6th, 2003, 11:09 PM	#10
Ryan Spevack Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 25	I think I'll get the Shure A15AS. Thanks for all your helpful advice. I appreciate it.

March 6th, 2003, 02:26 PM	#11
Jim Yang Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cape Girardeau, MO Posts: 38	Wouldn't it be better if you got sound directly from the sound board and get audience sound from your camera mic and then put them together?

March 6th, 2003, 11:09 PM	#12
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Does turning the levels down on an XLR adapter do the same thing as attenuation? I've always wondered this.

March 7th, 2003, 04:57 AM	#13
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	For all practical purposes turning down the level control is the same as attenuation, although attenuation may imply maintaining impedance match, and the level control in some adaptes may not maintain impedance match - not an issue for most purposes. The exception may be if there are active electronics (e.g., preamplifiers) ahead of the level control. In this case, turning down the level control would not protect the preamplifiers from a too-high signal that might induce excessive distortion or clipping. Again, not an issue with the commonly discussed adapters with level controls (e.g., Beachtek and Studio One).

March 7th, 2003, 08:54 AM	#14
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	When you say "ahead of the level control," do you mean: Mike-Preamp-XLR adapter-Camera of Mike-XLR adapter-Preamp (Camera internal)

March 7th, 2003, 03:08 PM	#15
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Yes, or more specifically: MIC->Preamp->level control->recorder This is without regard to how the functions are split among the XLR adapter and camcorder.