Audio for 5-6 people in a living room at DVinfo.net

Chris Korrow · December 7th, 2002, 01:20 PM

I guess the best way to get this would be lav mics on everyone with an on camera mic picking up the stereo and other ambient noise???? This is not a staged shoot but more like a documentary, a bunch of guys shooting the breeze on a Friday night. Thanks,

Chris

Mark Austin · December 7th, 2002, 05:53 PM

the lavs would give you the best dialog, but would have to be mixed pretty well. If you had, one louder or softer it's pretty hard to fix in post unless you recorded to a multitrack recorder. If I could I'd also try a couple of room mics they get a surprising amount of information, couch squeeks, phones, cop cars etc, but your on camera mic will probably do just fine. When being paid, I multi-track everything because it's so easy to blend it all together in post, giving a very natural (non lav) kind of sound. Are you going to multitrack the audio, or just mix it to video / tape?
Mark

Chris Korrow · December 9th, 2002, 11:05 AM

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the reply. Very helpful as I am still quite audio illiterate.
No multitrack and only one camera, so it sounds like the multiple lavs are out. I'm trying to make it look as normal as possible and am worried about the obvious distance from camera problems of an on camera mike - especially in a noisy, non-acoustic environment.

Do you know anything about those boundary mics and if that would be something to use on a table in the middle of the group?
Also I've got a good marantz tape deck and was thinking that I could maybe use that with the boundary mike as a back up to the on camera mic. As far as the room mics, what kind would be best?

Thanks,
Chris

Mark Austin · December 9th, 2002, 11:33 AM

The PZM / boundry mics are a great option, they will capture a very normal sound, and shoud be able to get all the dialog with no problem. You might be able to use it/them instead of the on camera mics and it would totally eliminate the distance problem and would eliminate any camera / operator noise. As far as room mics you probably want something directional (Cardiod) as opposed to omni where an omni patern mic may get more ambient noise than you need. Cardiod is just a directional pickup patern and gets what's in front of the mic whereas omni gets all around the mic front and back. Another thing to consider is getting a powered mic (Condenser) as they are very sensitive, and have (for the most part) a clear crisp sound. There are lots on the market, and for the most part you get what you pay for so the more $$$ the better they are. There are some real bargains though for some top shelf mics, there are some made by a company called "Studio Projects" and are in the $200 to $300 range and have compared favorably to the Neumann U87 A $2500 mic. If you do get to use condenser mics make sure to shock mount or isolate them well they are sensitive enough to pick up a lot of rumble from walking or handling noise. One final thought; how about a grip operating a boom with a shotgun mic (hypercardiod - very narrow pickup pattern) catching your dialog while the boundry mic on the table captures the room and the dialog, you can mix the two together for a very natural sound and you will be able to add some punch to your dialog with the shotgun audio track if needed. You could get by with that setup and just use the audio tracks in camera and mix your audio in post.

Chris Korrow · December 10th, 2002, 11:53 AM

Thanks Mike,

Very helpful. Will look into the boundary mics, with a shotgun on camera. I don't want a grip with a boom because I want these guys to forget (as much as can be expected) that their being filmed.
One guy that they know with a camera is something fun & different, Two would be a production to them.

Thanks again,
Chris

December 7th, 2002, 01:20 PM	#1
Chris Korrow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whidbey Is, WA Posts: 326	Audio for 5-6 people in a living room I guess the best way to get this would be lav mics on everyone with an on camera mic picking up the stereo and other ambient noise???? This is not a staged shoot but more like a documentary, a bunch of guys shooting the breeze on a Friday night. Thanks, Chris

December 7th, 2002, 05:53 PM	#2
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	Mics the lavs would give you the best dialog, but would have to be mixed pretty well. If you had, one louder or softer it's pretty hard to fix in post unless you recorded to a multitrack recorder. If I could I'd also try a couple of room mics they get a surprising amount of information, couch squeeks, phones, cop cars etc, but your on camera mic will probably do just fine. When being paid, I multi-track everything because it's so easy to blend it all together in post, giving a very natural (non lav) kind of sound. Are you going to multitrack the audio, or just mix it to video / tape? Mark __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

December 9th, 2002, 11:33 AM	#4
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	Boundry Mics (PZM - Pressure Zone Mic) The PZM / boundry mics are a great option, they will capture a very normal sound, and shoud be able to get all the dialog with no problem. You might be able to use it/them instead of the on camera mics and it would totally eliminate the distance problem and would eliminate any camera / operator noise. As far as room mics you probably want something directional (Cardiod) as opposed to omni where an omni patern mic may get more ambient noise than you need. Cardiod is just a directional pickup patern and gets what's in front of the mic whereas omni gets all around the mic front and back. Another thing to consider is getting a powered mic (Condenser) as they are very sensitive, and have (for the most part) a clear crisp sound. There are lots on the market, and for the most part you get what you pay for so the more $$$ the better they are. There are some real bargains though for some top shelf mics, there are some made by a company called "Studio Projects" and are in the $200 to $300 range and have compared favorably to the Neumann U87 A $2500 mic. If you do get to use condenser mics make sure to shock mount or isolate them well they are sensitive enough to pick up a lot of rumble from walking or handling noise. One final thought; how about a grip operating a boom with a shotgun mic (hypercardiod - very narrow pickup pattern) catching your dialog while the boundry mic on the table captures the room and the dialog, you can mix the two together for a very natural sound and you will be able to add some punch to your dialog with the shotgun audio track if needed. You could get by with that setup and just use the audio tracks in camera and mix your audio in post. __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

December 9th, 2002, 11:05 AM	#3
Chris Korrow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whidbey Is, WA Posts: 326	Hey Mark, Thanks for the reply. Very helpful as I am still quite audio illiterate. No multitrack and only one camera, so it sounds like the multiple lavs are out. I'm trying to make it look as normal as possible and am worried about the obvious distance from camera problems of an on camera mike - especially in a noisy, non-acoustic environment. Do you know anything about those boundary mics and if that would be something to use on a table in the middle of the group? Also I've got a good marantz tape deck and was thinking that I could maybe use that with the boundary mike as a back up to the on camera mic. As far as the room mics, what kind would be best? Thanks, Chris

December 10th, 2002, 11:53 AM	#5
Chris Korrow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whidbey Is, WA Posts: 326	Thanks Mike, Very helpful. Will look into the boundary mics, with a shotgun on camera. I don't want a grip with a boom because I want these guys to forget (as much as can be expected) that their being filmed. One guy that they know with a camera is something fun & different, Two would be a production to them. Thanks again, Chris