Sound level tweakage within a project at DVinfo.net

Josh Bass · November 21st, 2002, 03:32 AM

Are there some general rules or guidelines about sound levels? What I mean is, dialogue as related to sound effects as related to music and room tone, etc. (If dialogue is at 0 db, then SFX are at ___ db).

Also, I recorded some of my sound myself with an ME66, some too high, some really low. Some sounds are from findsounds.com Is there an easy way to equalize everything and get it to, um, line level, as they say? Or do I just have to go through each effect manually and tweak it.

I have Sound Forge, and am editing with Vegas Video 3.

John Locke · November 21st, 2002, 06:05 AM

Josh,

I asked this same question about a week ago and never got a response. If you've seen the short film I just finished, "Shadow," these are the settings I used with FCP:

Dialogue: between -10 and -5
Room tone: between -22 and -15
Music: between -11 and -15
Loud noises (explosions): -3

From the comments I've received, the dialogue needs to be pumped up a bit more and the explosions need to come down (they cause a popping sound on good audio equipment). I'll try to remix the audio soon with dialogue set between -7 and -3, and then loud noises at about -5 or slightly more.

Hope this helps. Like I said, I never got a response to my question, but I'd really like to know what settings others use.

Jon Eriksson · November 21st, 2002, 08:48 AM

There is as far as I know no specific rules whan it comes to the relationship between music-sfx and speech within a programme. What you have to look out for is the loudness of your product. European standards says max. peak at 6 PPM, '0'-level at 4 PPM (for us -18, in the states it is -20 if my memory serves me right)

Place the levels for speech first (and level them correctly) and add the other elemets afterwards and level them to what feels right.

There is a bit more about PPMs on
http://homerecording.about.com/gi/dy...p%2Dmeter.html

Hope I made some sense....

Jon

Josh Bass · November 21st, 2002, 01:11 PM

Thanks. I'll look it up. It's all very confusing. What I've been doing is getting the sounds to just before they start clipping, and then leaving them there.

Paul Sedillo · November 21st, 2002, 04:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : Thanks. I'll look it up. It's all very confusing. What I've been doing is getting the sounds to just before they start clipping, and then leaving them there. -->>>

As I mentioned today, talk with Mark Austin. He should be able to steer you in the right direction.

Steve Leone · February 15th, 2003, 02:49 PM

I used to use -20 as my max level for recording dialog, but found that it was just way too down....now I use -10 and I have an easier time mixing in sound beds with voice over levels set there. As far as -5 is concerned, that is dangerously close to crunch at that point.....with out any compression, you stand a chance of over-driving , and you can NEVER go over 0DB with digital audio.....I'd always rather err on the side of caution...you can always bring it up in post, and digital has so little hiss in the noise floor, you dont loose much by having to do that....by the way, when I rip CD's for audio, I also always reduce the loudness by 6DB.....

Phil French · February 15th, 2003, 04:32 PM

This is a bit off track, but might be helpful...someone suggested taking down the 1khz area of any background sound or music that overlays any vocal part of a sound track. Doing this allows you to keep the ambient sound/music at a louder level relative to speech while allowing you to still hear what is being said. I tried it in post and it seems to help in certain cases.

Steve Leone · February 15th, 2003, 05:41 PM

that seems to make sense since presence boost on most VO is between 1 and 5 KHZ, and is supposed to make VO cut through the mix better...

Don Palomaki · February 16th, 2003, 08:28 AM

How about someone capture the sound from a good profesisonal tape (e.g., a good rental) and analyse the levels.

November 21st, 2002, 03:32 AM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Sound level tweakage within a project Are there some general rules or guidelines about sound levels? What I mean is, dialogue as related to sound effects as related to music and room tone, etc. (If dialogue is at 0 db, then SFX are at ___ db). Also, I recorded some of my sound myself with an ME66, some too high, some really low. Some sounds are from findsounds.com Is there an easy way to equalize everything and get it to, um, line level, as they say? Or do I just have to go through each effect manually and tweak it. I have Sound Forge, and am editing with Vegas Video 3. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

November 21st, 2002, 06:05 AM	#2
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Josh, I asked this same question about a week ago and never got a response. If you've seen the short film I just finished, "Shadow," these are the settings I used with FCP: Dialogue: between -10 and -5 Room tone: between -22 and -15 Music: between -11 and -15 Loud noises (explosions): -3 From the comments I've received, the dialogue needs to be pumped up a bit more and the explosions need to come down (they cause a popping sound on good audio equipment). I'll try to remix the audio soon with dialogue set between -7 and -3, and then loud noises at about -5 or slightly more. Hope this helps. Like I said, I never got a response to my question, but I'd really like to know what settings others use. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

November 21st, 2002, 08:48 AM	#3
Jon Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 42	There is as far as I know no specific rules whan it comes to the relationship between music-sfx and speech within a programme. What you have to look out for is the loudness of your product. European standards says max. peak at 6 PPM, '0'-level at 4 PPM (for us -18, in the states it is -20 if my memory serves me right) Place the levels for speech first (and level them correctly) and add the other elemets afterwards and level them to what feels right. There is a bit more about PPMs on http://homerecording.about.com/gi/dy...p%2Dmeter.html Hope I made some sense.... Jon __________________ Real Men do not Preview

November 21st, 2002, 01:11 PM	#4
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Thanks. I'll look it up. It's all very confusing. What I've been doing is getting the sounds to just before they start clipping, and then leaving them there. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

November 21st, 2002, 04:51 PM	#5
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : Thanks. I'll look it up. It's all very confusing. What I've been doing is getting the sounds to just before they start clipping, and then leaving them there. -->>> As I mentioned today, talk with Mark Austin. He should be able to steer you in the right direction. __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

February 15th, 2003, 02:49 PM	#6
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	sound levels I used to use -20 as my max level for recording dialog, but found that it was just way too down....now I use -10 and I have an easier time mixing in sound beds with voice over levels set there. As far as -5 is concerned, that is dangerously close to crunch at that point.....with out any compression, you stand a chance of over-driving , and you can NEVER go over 0DB with digital audio.....I'd always rather err on the side of caution...you can always bring it up in post, and digital has so little hiss in the noise floor, you dont loose much by having to do that....by the way, when I rip CD's for audio, I also always reduce the loudness by 6DB..... __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

February 15th, 2003, 04:32 PM	#7
Phil French Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lousana, Alberta, Canada Posts: 146	This is a bit off track, but might be helpful...someone suggested taking down the 1khz area of any background sound or music that overlays any vocal part of a sound track. Doing this allows you to keep the ambient sound/music at a louder level relative to speech while allowing you to still hear what is being said. I tried it in post and it seems to help in certain cases. __________________ Nature Boy

February 15th, 2003, 05:41 PM	#8
Steve Leone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 116	1 KHZ notch that seems to make sense since presence boost on most VO is between 1 and 5 KHZ, and is supposed to make VO cut through the mix better... __________________ Omens carry only as much weight as we choose to assign them.

February 16th, 2003, 08:28 AM	#9
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	How about someone capture the sound from a good profesisonal tape (e.g., a good rental) and analyse the levels.