XL1S vs. GL2 - XL1S looks blah compared... at DVinfo.net

Eric Holloway · June 6th, 2005, 03:42 PM

I film events with the XL1S as my main camera and my GL2 as my second angle camera. Every since I started messing around with the GL2, the video on the XL1S looks less impressive. The GL2 look more vibrant and crisp where as the XL1S looks almost "muddy" and dark. I put both cameras on the same shutter, aperature, gain, etc, and the GL2 looks much better. Can anyone explain this or has anyone had the same experience?

Thanks,

Eric

Jack Smith · June 6th, 2005, 04:28 PM

A few things missing. What was the subject? What lighting? What were the settings? Are you sure you havent underexposed the XL1S footage?Did you judge expose with zebras on both cams?

Eric Holloway · June 6th, 2005, 04:59 PM

The lighting was indoor and pretty well lit... I was tested the two cameras side by side with the same settings in full manual mode... The GL2 just looks more vibrant... I can't figure out what the problem is. The XL1S should be better or at least the same...

But regardless what the zebra's were showing, as long as both cameras had identical settings, shouldn't they look pretty close?

Eric

Aaron Koolen · June 6th, 2005, 07:12 PM

Can you post some stills from each of them?

Also, the Gl2 has a higher resolution and is sharper out of the box. I absolutely notice this when looking at my footage compared to a friends Xl1s.

Aaron

Jack Smith · June 6th, 2005, 10:04 PM

Using the same settings on the 2 cameras may not optimize the exposure.I find the XL1S likes a little more exposure, but if you judge by correctly set zebras it should be good.Did you have enough light for f4 or more?NO gain or -3 gain and are the setup levels at default?
Was there a predominate colour, green maybe?
Although the GL2 appears to be crisper at default settings the XL1S should have at least as good if not better colour retention and imaging.Kinda of a smoother look although maybe not as crisp.

Ash Greyson · June 10th, 2005, 12:06 AM

These are 2 different cameras, the same settings wont be equal. Manually white balance both and use an external monitor to a/b the picture until they match up. The GL2 does NOT have more resolution, that is a silly claim. It comes WAY sharper on the default settings which adds artifacting etc. The XL series has a better lens but will also require more light in most cases... used properly it is a far superior camer but the operation is MUCH more difficult than a GL cam.

ash =o)

Pete Wilie · June 10th, 2005, 08:53 AM

I have read many posts here at DVInfo.net where people prefer GL2 footage over XL1S footage when both are shot with the stock lens. The XL1S may be more versatile and easier to set manual settings, but the GL2 seems to provide a better quality picture in many cases.

Cosmin Rotaru · June 10th, 2005, 09:16 AM

If you read the specs, the GL2 has greater resolution compared to the XL1S...

GL2: "Image sensor: 380,000 effective pixels"
xl1s: "Effective sensor resolution 250,000 pixels"

Graham Bernard · June 10th, 2005, 10:32 AM

Nice one Cosmin! - Grazie

Ash Greyson · June 12th, 2005, 10:49 PM

The end result in resolution is the exact same, there are not more lines put to tape with a GL2 than with an XL1s. The only real noticeable difference the higher rez CCDs make is when the GL2 goes into a digital zoom. The GL2 is also sharper (and much noisier) in low light.

This is my 10th year to shoot DV, I own 6 DV cameras and have shot with every camera on the market. The GL2 is an excellent point and shoot camera but a skilled operator will make an XL1s look better in most situations...

Here are a few random interlaced grabs from an XL1s, all are RAW video shot with available light, which at times was almost nothing. I have been working on a doc for a while and I get grabs from every tape as a reference when I log footage.

http://members.aol.com/ashvid/Grabs/

As with ANYTHING, it is dependent on the job and the shoot...

ash =o)

Pete Wilie · June 13th, 2005, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

... The GL2 is an excellent point and shoot camera but a skilled operator will make an XL1s look better in most situations...

This is very subjective. A skilled cinematographer can make either camera look good. The GL2 is far more than a "point and shoot" camera. There have been some excellent movies shot with the GL2. But it's obviously not to your liking -- and that's fine.

But I'll repeat -- I've seen many reports here by people skilled with the XL1S that have preferred the GL2 image over the XL1S with the stock lens.

Graham Bernard · June 13th, 2005, 04:07 AM

My XM2 footage and Vegas5 edit, has just assisted a London Borough being shortlisted in a National Library's Award.

Say nah more . .. ! Job done!

Grazie

Ash Greyson · June 13th, 2005, 11:54 AM

Let me clarify... I think it is easier to get a great image out of a GL2 than an XL1s. Out of the box, the GL is easier to use and will provide a great image. That is why many people who use the GL2 are not impressed when they first try out an XL series cam. The same holds true for those who are used to an XL1s, they generally are not impressed at first with the XL2, which for most applications, is a superior cam.

As for me, I choose the GL2 (or the sony DV cams) for corportate work and the XL series for creative (music videos, shorts, etc.)

ash =o)

Daniel Patton · July 7th, 2005, 11:31 PM

We also use both cameras, GL2 and the XL1s, or maybe I should say we own both. We use the XL1s for 99% of the work we do since purchased, the GL2 has never even come close for us. I only mention this because I find it odd that so many others could prefer the look of the GL2's image over the XL series. I guess the "broadcast" look is just something we never wanted.

Old post revived, sorry. But does anyone else use both and prefer the XL cameras?

Ash Greyson · July 8th, 2005, 02:00 AM

I sold my GL unit in favor of a DVX100a. I still occasionally use one as a 2nd camera for corporate stuff. Basically, people get used to what they see in their own camera and they like it, they learn to ignore the faults and focus on the strengths. I always use a camera that I feel is appropriate for the job.

The XL1s and expecially XL2 have many settings to customize the look, they are not point and shoot cameras and require skilled operation. I always use the analogy, it is a better guitar, just harder to play.

I have to say in general, the people with the most hopeless devotion to their cameras are the DVX100a fanboys, even I, as a DVX owner, cannot stand them....

ash =o)

June 6th, 2005, 03:42 PM	#1
Eric Holloway Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 173	XL1S vs. GL2 - XL1S looks blah compared... I film events with the XL1S as my main camera and my GL2 as my second angle camera. Every since I started messing around with the GL2, the video on the XL1S looks less impressive. The GL2 look more vibrant and crisp where as the XL1S looks almost "muddy" and dark. I put both cameras on the same shutter, aperature, gain, etc, and the GL2 looks much better. Can anyone explain this or has anyone had the same experience? Thanks, Eric

June 6th, 2005, 07:12 PM	#4
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Can you post some stills from each of them? Also, the Gl2 has a higher resolution and is sharper out of the box. I absolutely notice this when looking at my footage compared to a friends Xl1s. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

June 10th, 2005, 09:16 AM	#8
Cosmin Rotaru Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Romania, Timisoara Posts: 453	If you read the specs, the GL2 has greater resolution compared to the XL1S... GL2: "Image sensor: 380,000 effective pixels" xl1s: "Effective sensor resolution 250,000 pixels" __________________ Cosmin Rotaru

July 7th, 2005, 11:31 PM	#14
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	We also use both cameras, GL2 and the XL1s, or maybe I should say we own both. We use the XL1s for 99% of the work we do since purchased, the GL2 has never even come close for us. I only mention this because I find it odd that so many others could prefer the look of the GL2's image over the XL series. I guess the "broadcast" look is just something we never wanted. Old post revived, sorry. But does anyone else use both and prefer the XL cameras? __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

June 6th, 2005, 04:28 PM	#2
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	A few things missing. What was the subject? What lighting? What were the settings? Are you sure you havent underexposed the XL1S footage?Did you judge expose with zebras on both cams?

June 6th, 2005, 04:59 PM	#3
Eric Holloway Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 173	The lighting was indoor and pretty well lit... I was tested the two cameras side by side with the same settings in full manual mode... The GL2 just looks more vibrant... I can't figure out what the problem is. The XL1S should be better or at least the same... But regardless what the zebra's were showing, as long as both cameras had identical settings, shouldn't they look pretty close? Eric

June 6th, 2005, 10:04 PM	#5
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Using the same settings on the 2 cameras may not optimize the exposure.I find the XL1S likes a little more exposure, but if you judge by correctly set zebras it should be good.Did you have enough light for f4 or more?NO gain or -3 gain and are the setup levels at default? Was there a predominate colour, green maybe? Although the GL2 appears to be crisper at default settings the XL1S should have at least as good if not better colour retention and imaging.Kinda of a smoother look although maybe not as crisp.

June 10th, 2005, 12:06 AM	#6
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	These are 2 different cameras, the same settings wont be equal. Manually white balance both and use an external monitor to a/b the picture until they match up. The GL2 does NOT have more resolution, that is a silly claim. It comes WAY sharper on the default settings which adds artifacting etc. The XL series has a better lens but will also require more light in most cases... used properly it is a far superior camer but the operation is MUCH more difficult than a GL cam. ash =o)

June 10th, 2005, 08:53 AM	#7
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	I have read many posts here at DVInfo.net where people prefer GL2 footage over XL1S footage when both are shot with the stock lens. The XL1S may be more versatile and easier to set manual settings, but the GL2 seems to provide a better quality picture in many cases.

June 10th, 2005, 10:32 AM	#9
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Nice one Cosmin! - Grazie

June 12th, 2005, 10:49 PM	#10
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	The end result in resolution is the exact same, there are not more lines put to tape with a GL2 than with an XL1s. The only real noticeable difference the higher rez CCDs make is when the GL2 goes into a digital zoom. The GL2 is also sharper (and much noisier) in low light. This is my 10th year to shoot DV, I own 6 DV cameras and have shot with every camera on the market. The GL2 is an excellent point and shoot camera but a skilled operator will make an XL1s look better in most situations... Here are a few random interlaced grabs from an XL1s, all are RAW video shot with available light, which at times was almost nothing. I have been working on a doc for a while and I get grabs from every tape as a reference when I log footage. http://members.aol.com/ashvid/Grabs/ As with ANYTHING, it is dependent on the job and the shoot... ash =o)

June 13th, 2005, 04:07 AM	#12
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	My XM2 footage and Vegas5 edit, has just assisted a London Borough being shortlisted in a National Library's Award. Say nah more . .. ! Job done! Grazie

June 13th, 2005, 11:54 AM	#13
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Let me clarify... I think it is easier to get a great image out of a GL2 than an XL1s. Out of the box, the GL is easier to use and will provide a great image. That is why many people who use the GL2 are not impressed when they first try out an XL series cam. The same holds true for those who are used to an XL1s, they generally are not impressed at first with the XL2, which for most applications, is a superior cam. As for me, I choose the GL2 (or the sony DV cams) for corportate work and the XL series for creative (music videos, shorts, etc.) ash =o)

July 8th, 2005, 02:00 AM	#15
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	I sold my GL unit in favor of a DVX100a. I still occasionally use one as a 2nd camera for corporate stuff. Basically, people get used to what they see in their own camera and they like it, they learn to ignore the faults and focus on the strengths. I always use a camera that I feel is appropriate for the job. The XL1s and expecially XL2 have many settings to customize the look, they are not point and shoot cameras and require skilled operation. I always use the analogy, it is a better guitar, just harder to play. I have to say in general, the people with the most hopeless devotion to their cameras are the DVX100a fanboys, even I, as a DVX owner, cannot stand them.... ash =o)