Explain: 'phantom power' at DVinfo.net

Andrew Petrie · October 3rd, 2002, 09:52 AM

I'll invest in an ME66. There are two power options: K6, or Phantom power module. Could someone please outline the differences and benefits of each?

Thankyee

Ken Tanaka · October 3rd, 2002, 10:50 AM

"Phantom power" refers to the ablity of a mic (or any accessory, for that matter) to be powered by an external source, typically a camera's battery. The Sennheiser ME66, like several similar mics, can either accept phantom power or can be powered by a AA battery in the (separate) K6 power module (which screws into the base of the ME66 module.

Andrew Petrie · October 3rd, 2002, 12:40 PM

So, for a guy like me who'll be using the mic on both the XL, and booms, and possibly other applicaitons, the regular AA K6 module would be better.... Agreed?

Ken Tanaka · October 3rd, 2002, 12:43 PM

Agreed. The XL1 cannot supply phantom power to a mic.

Jacques Mersereau · October 17th, 2002, 07:30 PM

I bought a Beachtek DXA-6 adapter for use with
a Sennheiser 416 condenser shotgun mic setup
on my XL1 and VX2000. The
DXA-6 takes a 9v battery and provides one channel
of phantom power. Works great.

Generally, phantom power is used in conjunction
with condenser microphones. Most high quality
shotguns and lavs are condenser, which means they
take DC current (up to 48volts) to power the capsule.

Aaron Koolen · October 19th, 2002, 03:18 PM

Is there any quality issues with the Battery vs Phantom power option? Is it necessary to get a DXA-6 in other words?

Jacques Mersereau · October 19th, 2002, 03:55 PM

No quality issues, except the real high end mics
normally don't have a self powered battery option.

So you don't have to get a DXA-6, but you have
to get a condenser mic that takes batteries, like
the Sennheiser K6 module that works with the
ME66 or ME67 capsule. The less expensive
MKE300 also takes a battery.

The thing is, the beachtek adapters also have the ability to take line level input. If your signal is coming from a sound mixer using XLR outputs,
(chances are) that signal is at +4dB. That means
if you pug that into your MA100, you get nothing but horrible distortion. The MA100 allows you to
plug in a mic (@ -50dB mic level), but has no way of handling +4 line level that is used by most
mixers.

I bought a MA100, and it usually sits home.

Anyone want to buy it? ;)

Don Palomaki · October 19th, 2002, 04:30 PM

Not using the MA100 because it can't take +4 dBV feed? Then try an inline attenuator when using a feed from a sound board. About 40 dB cut would be more thatn enough - 20 dB would probably work OK.

Jacques Mersereau · October 19th, 2002, 05:57 PM

You're right there Don, but you have to buy two pads.So, if you take the price of a MA200
($395@Promax) or a MA 300 ($250) and
add the in line pads, you are at (or well over) the price of a DXA-6 ($279), which also provides one channel of phantom, and you don't have to deal with in-line pads.

I do admit I wish that Beachtek
used a 30 dB pad in their adapter instead of
the 50 dB one which pads the signal too much imo.

Of course, if someone wants to buy my
MA-100 for $125, then that is the cheapest
alternative :)

Don Palomaki · October 20th, 2002, 06:25 AM

BTW, other benefits of the MA-100 are the improved shoulder rest and mounting plate for wireless receiver, dual-battery pack, etc..

At $125 your offer sounds like a reasonable deal for someone who doesn't have a MA-100 and needs one.

Murray Wilkinson · October 22nd, 2002, 04:22 AM

ok.do you want to post it to me here in australia?
been looking for A CHEAP MA 100 FOR A WHILE.

Jacques Mersereau · October 22nd, 2002, 07:10 AM

Email me off list. I'm not sure how to work this deal, but
maybe we can figure this out.

jacmer@umich.edu

David Slingerland · October 23rd, 2002, 04:59 AM

i use a md431 senheiser, but i do find the input very low on the automat it doesnt work well, i dont get sufficient levels so i have to work manually to get any desent readings, so can anybody tell me why? its not a phantom microfoon and does not need any batteries to feed it. It works well on the professional cameras i use for my work.

Jacques Mersereau · October 23rd, 2002, 11:35 AM

The 431 is a nice mic, but as you said, a dynamic, not a condenser.
Therefore its output isn't as 'hot' as a externally powered (or battery equipped) mic.
So, you may have to turn it up to get any kind of decent gain.

I wouldn't worry to much about not being able to use automatic mode.
Just keep an eye on your levels and make sure you don't get any
'overs'.

Are you using the MA-100, 200 or 300 adapter? If you are adapting
the mic straight to stereo mini or RCA with some kind of other adapter, you may have other problems due to incorrect wiring.

In addition, make sure that in your menu settings that you are set
on mic level and not line level.

Murray Wilkinson · October 23rd, 2002, 06:11 PM

i have only just heard about the MA 300. can somebody explain what the difference is..how much....and is it worth it?
i am thinking about a ma 100. i have a field mixer if i need more than 2 mics.

October 3rd, 2002, 09:52 AM	#1
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	Explain: 'phantom power' I'll invest in an ME66. There are two power options: K6, or Phantom power module. Could someone please outline the differences and benefits of each? Thankyee __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)

October 3rd, 2002, 10:50 AM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	"Phantom power" refers to the ablity of a mic (or any accessory, for that matter) to be powered by an external source, typically a camera's battery. The Sennheiser ME66, like several similar mics, can either accept phantom power or can be powered by a AA battery in the (separate) K6 power module (which screws into the base of the ME66 module. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

October 3rd, 2002, 12:40 PM	#3
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	So, for a guy like me who'll be using the mic on both the XL, and booms, and possibly other applicaitons, the regular AA K6 module would be better.... Agreed? __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)

October 3rd, 2002, 12:43 PM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Agreed. The XL1 cannot supply phantom power to a mic. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

October 17th, 2002, 07:30 PM	#5
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	I bought a Beachtek DXA-6 adapter for use with a Sennheiser 416 condenser shotgun mic setup on my XL1 and VX2000. The DXA-6 takes a 9v battery and provides one channel of phantom power. Works great. Generally, phantom power is used in conjunction with condenser microphones. Most high quality shotguns and lavs are condenser, which means they take DC current (up to 48volts) to power the capsule. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

October 19th, 2002, 03:18 PM	#6
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Is there any quality issues with the Battery vs Phantom power option? Is it necessary to get a DXA-6 in other words?

October 19th, 2002, 03:55 PM	#7
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	No quality issues, except the real high end mics normally don't have a self powered battery option. So you don't have to get a DXA-6, but you have to get a condenser mic that takes batteries, like the Sennheiser K6 module that works with the ME66 or ME67 capsule. The less expensive MKE300 also takes a battery. The thing is, the beachtek adapters also have the ability to take line level input. If your signal is coming from a sound mixer using XLR outputs, (chances are) that signal is at +4dB. That means if you pug that into your MA100, you get nothing but horrible distortion. The MA100 allows you to plug in a mic (@ -50dB mic level), but has no way of handling +4 line level that is used by most mixers. I bought a MA100, and it usually sits home. Anyone want to buy it? ;) __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

October 19th, 2002, 04:30 PM	#8
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Not using the MA100 because it can't take +4 dBV feed? Then try an inline attenuator when using a feed from a sound board. About 40 dB cut would be more thatn enough - 20 dB would probably work OK.

October 19th, 2002, 05:57 PM	#9
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	You're right there Don, but you have to buy two pads.So, if you take the price of a MA200 ($395@Promax) or a MA 300 ($250) and add the in line pads, you are at (or well over) the price of a DXA-6 ($279), which also provides one channel of phantom, and you don't have to deal with in-line pads. I do admit I wish that Beachtek used a 30 dB pad in their adapter instead of the 50 dB one which pads the signal too much imo. Of course, if someone wants to buy my MA-100 for $125, then that is the cheapest alternative :) __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

October 20th, 2002, 06:25 AM	#10
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	BTW, other benefits of the MA-100 are the improved shoulder rest and mounting plate for wireless receiver, dual-battery pack, etc.. At $125 your offer sounds like a reasonable deal for someone who doesn't have a MA-100 and needs one.

October 22nd, 2002, 04:22 AM	#11
Murray Wilkinson New Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne AUST Posts: 12	ma 100 ok.do you want to post it to me here in australia? been looking for A CHEAP MA 100 FOR A WHILE.

October 22nd, 2002, 07:10 AM	#12
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Email me off list. I'm not sure how to work this deal, but maybe we can figure this out. jacmer@umich.edu __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

October 23rd, 2002, 04:59 AM	#13
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	i use a md431 senheiser, but i do find the input very low on the automat it doesnt work well, i dont get sufficient levels so i have to work manually to get any desent readings, so can anybody tell me why? its not a phantom microfoon and does not need any batteries to feed it. It works well on the professional cameras i use for my work.

October 23rd, 2002, 11:35 AM	#14
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	The 431 is a nice mic, but as you said, a dynamic, not a condenser. Therefore its output isn't as 'hot' as a externally powered (or battery equipped) mic. So, you may have to turn it up to get any kind of decent gain. I wouldn't worry to much about not being able to use automatic mode. Just keep an eye on your levels and make sure you don't get any 'overs'. Are you using the MA-100, 200 or 300 adapter? If you are adapting the mic straight to stereo mini or RCA with some kind of other adapter, you may have other problems due to incorrect wiring. In addition, make sure that in your menu settings that you are set on mic level and not line level. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

October 23rd, 2002, 06:11 PM	#15
Murray Wilkinson New Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne AUST Posts: 12	ma 300 i have only just heard about the MA 300. can somebody explain what the difference is..how much....and is it worth it? i am thinking about a ma 100. i have a field mixer if i need more than 2 mics.