Canon 3x wide angle lens questions

Rob Lohman · August 1st, 2004, 11:54 AM

You have the Canon 1.6x XL extender for example that would
turn the 3x into a 4.8x lens, but that would not nearly get into
the same range as a 16x times. I don't think it is possible what
you want. I guess that's what the whole swappable lens feature
is for anyway. Just put the 16x lens on it.

Yi Fong Yu · August 4th, 2004, 01:46 PM

i just got 3x lens for me xl1s and it gets very blurry during pan shots when i convert from frame mode (30p right?) to 24p to burn on DVD. frame mode looks spectacular. there's no "need" to do that i was just experimenting. i mean ... how do people like soderberg use the xl1s and then transfer it to film and have it still look OK?

Jean-Philippe Archibald · August 4th, 2004, 02:05 PM

Ok, I have never do this thing and I could be wrong, but I don't think that it is due to the 3X lens. People like Soderberg generally use PAL version when they want to go to film. Because PAL is 25 fps and it is easy to convert to 24P. It is almost impossible to have good results with 30P to 24P. I have read somewhere that most of the transfer labs require to work with 60i instead of 30p (or frame mode) to convert NTSC footage to film.

Rob Lohman · August 4th, 2004, 02:09 PM

So you claim it goes wrong when you go from 30p to 24p. The
all important question is then: what software are you using and
which settings. The big boys have highly advanced software to
do such conversions as best as possible, usually with some
human supervision to tweak areas.

Yi Fong Yu · August 4th, 2004, 02:31 PM

vegas5.

John Mercer · August 7th, 2004, 05:03 AM

Why are you converting 30p to 24p? This will inevitably cause problems. It is not designed to work this way. To extrapolate 24p from 30p causes some serious artifacts.

If you shoot 30p then you are best to stick to 30p for all output. If you need 24p then you would be better off shooting on a camera capable of this frame rate.

Best regards,
John.

Jeff Donald · August 7th, 2004, 07:24 PM

It would be better to do 60i to 24p than 30p to 24p. Of course it is best to do 24p as John point out.

Michael Wisniewski · August 7th, 2004, 07:40 PM

Would it work any better if you converted 30p to 60i, then go to 24p?

Jeff Donald · August 8th, 2004, 06:40 AM

Probably not, but try a short segment and see what it looks like.

Yi Fong Yu · August 8th, 2004, 03:59 PM

good idea, i'll have to experiment next time i get my cam out =^).

John Mercer · August 9th, 2004, 03:47 AM

"Would it work any better if you converted 30p to 60i, then go to 24p?"

You can't convert 30p to 60i since it is already 60i, with complete frames over two fields as opposed to two seprate motion fields - it's still stored 60i on tape. You can't recreate motion where non exists.

The problem will always remain that 30p into 24p does not go elegantly. There will be serious motion artifacts.

I don't know what you feel will be gained by converting 30p into 24p - are you after more of a 'film look'? It will not add to this. Are you wanting to output to film? You'd be much better off shooting regular 60i for that with the Canon XL1s or get hold of the DVX100a for true 24p.

Best regards,
John.

Yi Fong Yu · August 9th, 2004, 07:23 AM

ok i plan to try the 60i->24p. i'm just experimenting with the film looks, yesh. i may also get the XL2 next spring, but meanwhile... need to emulate some 24p.

John Mercer · August 9th, 2004, 08:39 AM

"but meanwhile... need to emulate some 24p."

24p won't add anything specifically more filmic than 30p - it's only really useful for where you've shot in the format and plan to work in a 24p timeline for either transfer to film or 24p DVD - but if you haven't shot in 24p it is pretty redundant other than taking 60i interlaced footage for txfr to film.

24p derived from 60i has it's own set of problems too - though not as serious as 30p to 24p - you will get motion artifacts on moving scenes, caused by interpolation of interlaced footage to progressive.

Honestly your best bet is to stick with 30p (frame mode XL1s) and experiment with colour correction etc. 30p progressive can look just as much like 'film' on video as 24p and you will have none of the problems that you are facing now. There is nothing magical about 24p versus 30p that suddenly makes it 'film'.

Best regards,
John.

Yi Fong Yu · August 9th, 2004, 09:04 AM

ok thx =).

Nicholas Foster · September 9th, 2004, 12:24 PM

Is the 3x wide lens for the Canon XL1s fisheye?

August 1st, 2004, 11:54 AM	#136
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	You have the Canon 1.6x XL extender for example that would turn the 3x into a 4.8x lens, but that would not nearly get into the same range as a 16x times. I don't think it is possible what you want. I guess that's what the whole swappable lens feature is for anyway. Just put the 16x lens on it. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 4th, 2004, 01:46 PM	#137
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	just got a 3x lens... gets blurry when converting from frame mode to 24p. i just got 3x lens for me xl1s and it gets very blurry during pan shots when i convert from frame mode (30p right?) to 24p to burn on DVD. frame mode looks spectacular. there's no "need" to do that i was just experimenting. i mean ... how do people like soderberg use the xl1s and then transfer it to film and have it still look OK? __________________ bow wow wow

August 4th, 2004, 02:05 PM	#138
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	Ok, I have never do this thing and I could be wrong, but I don't think that it is due to the 3X lens. People like Soderberg generally use PAL version when they want to go to film. Because PAL is 25 fps and it is easy to convert to 24P. It is almost impossible to have good results with 30P to 24P. I have read somewhere that most of the transfer labs require to work with 60i instead of 30p (or frame mode) to convert NTSC footage to film. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

August 4th, 2004, 02:09 PM	#139
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	So you claim it goes wrong when you go from 30p to 24p. The all important question is then: what software are you using and which settings. The big boys have highly advanced software to do such conversions as best as possible, usually with some human supervision to tweak areas. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 4th, 2004, 02:31 PM	#140
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	vegas5. __________________ bow wow wow

August 7th, 2004, 05:03 AM	#141
John Mercer Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Spain Posts: 73	Why are you converting 30p to 24p? This will inevitably cause problems. It is not designed to work this way. To extrapolate 24p from 30p causes some serious artifacts. If you shoot 30p then you are best to stick to 30p for all output. If you need 24p then you would be better off shooting on a camera capable of this frame rate. Best regards, John.

August 7th, 2004, 07:24 PM	#142
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	It would be better to do 60i to 24p than 30p to 24p. Of course it is best to do 24p as John point out. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 7th, 2004, 07:40 PM	#143
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Would it work any better if you converted 30p to 60i, then go to 24p?

August 8th, 2004, 06:40 AM	#144
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Probably not, but try a short segment and see what it looks like. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 8th, 2004, 03:59 PM	#145
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	good idea, i'll have to experiment next time i get my cam out =^). __________________ bow wow wow

August 9th, 2004, 03:47 AM	#146
John Mercer Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Spain Posts: 73	"Would it work any better if you converted 30p to 60i, then go to 24p?" You can't convert 30p to 60i since it is already 60i, with complete frames over two fields as opposed to two seprate motion fields - it's still stored 60i on tape. You can't recreate motion where non exists. The problem will always remain that 30p into 24p does not go elegantly. There will be serious motion artifacts. I don't know what you feel will be gained by converting 30p into 24p - are you after more of a 'film look'? It will not add to this. Are you wanting to output to film? You'd be much better off shooting regular 60i for that with the Canon XL1s or get hold of the DVX100a for true 24p. Best regards, John.

August 9th, 2004, 07:23 AM	#147
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	ok i plan to try the 60i->24p. i'm just experimenting with the film looks, yesh. i may also get the XL2 next spring, but meanwhile... need to emulate some 24p. __________________ bow wow wow

August 9th, 2004, 08:39 AM	#148
John Mercer Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Spain Posts: 73	"but meanwhile... need to emulate some 24p." 24p won't add anything specifically more filmic than 30p - it's only really useful for where you've shot in the format and plan to work in a 24p timeline for either transfer to film or 24p DVD - but if you haven't shot in 24p it is pretty redundant other than taking 60i interlaced footage for txfr to film. 24p derived from 60i has it's own set of problems too - though not as serious as 30p to 24p - you will get motion artifacts on moving scenes, caused by interpolation of interlaced footage to progressive. Honestly your best bet is to stick with 30p (frame mode XL1s) and experiment with colour correction etc. 30p progressive can look just as much like 'film' on video as 24p and you will have none of the problems that you are facing now. There is nothing magical about 24p versus 30p that suddenly makes it 'film'. Best regards, John.

August 9th, 2004, 09:04 AM	#149
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	ok thx =). __________________ bow wow wow

September 9th, 2004, 12:24 PM	#150
Nicholas Foster Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 47	Question about 3x wide lens Is the 3x wide lens for the Canon XL1s fisheye?