Slow Shutter Speeds in Frame Mode at DVinfo.net

Adrian Douglas · November 11th, 2001, 04:21 AM

Does anybody know if it's possible to activate the Slow Shutter Speeds in Frame Mode on the XL1. It works in Normal but not in Frame Mode, is there a secret trick like the colour bars?

Chris Hurd · November 20th, 2001, 08:26 AM

Sorry Adrian, not possible! I suppose I should add this to the FAQ.

Adrian Douglas · November 21st, 2001, 04:54 AM

DOH!!!!!!

Oh well, just have to shoot that scene interlaced, with the slow shutter speed, I don't think anyone will notice the difference, it's only a couple of secs.

Rob Lohman · November 21st, 2001, 05:21 AM

Chris... what is this? Are you saying that you cannot
change the shutter speed whilst in frame movie mode?
Why is this? This is very worrying...

Don Palomaki · November 21st, 2001, 06:11 AM

I believe that frame mode loses meaning at shutter speeds that are slower than the field rate. You should be able to change shutter speeds in frame mode as long as you are not in the digital effects slow shutter speeds.

Chris Hurd · November 21st, 2001, 07:19 AM

Rob,

Read carefully what Don explains just above... of course you can adjust the normal shutter control (the round dial) while in Frame Movie mode... but you will not have access to the digital effect slow shutter speeds. That's what we're talking about. Hope this helps,

Adrian Douglas · November 21st, 2001, 08:39 AM

Put reaL shutter speeds on the XL2 wish list, not just digital effects. 1/6th of a second is slow enough, but make it an actual Manual Mode shutter speed, not a Auto mode effect

Rob Lohman · November 21st, 2001, 01:51 PM

hmmm... okay... that sounds better.... what is the
range of the "non-digital/effects" shutter? From where
to where does it go? Thx again chris! :)

Regards,

Chris Hurd · November 21st, 2001, 02:02 PM

Rob,

I always encourage people to do their own research -- it is better remembered that way -- see "XL1S Specifications" link at http://www.dvinfo.net/xl1s.htm -- full info there for shutter speeds and other specs. Hope this helps,

Don Palomaki · November 21st, 2001, 06:38 PM

I believe that all slow shutters (slower than field rate) are digital effects. The only question is whether or not the manufacturere chooses to call them digital effects, and whether or not other in-camera effects can be overlaid. That is because the data for each field has to be buffered (stored) and read later - because no matter the shutter speed, the field rate remained fixed per the video format. While fast shutter speeds can be streamed, slow shutters may have to be repeated while the next 'snap' is 'exposing' the CCD.

Rob Lohman · November 22nd, 2001, 02:33 AM

Chris,

I'd like to look too, but sometimes work is too busy :) ...
I followed your link but could not find the information!
Either i'm not looking good (heh) or it's not on that page...
Sorry... i don't have the time (at this moment) too scan
your whole site... Does anyoen have this information in
there heads? (which range the shutter is without going
into an "Effect")...

Thanks!

Don Palomaki · November 22nd, 2001, 08:27 AM

You should find that shutter speeds 1/30 and slower are effects (perhaps accomplished by field doubling on many machines), 1/60 and above are not effects. At slow shutter speeds the motion blurr associated with the slow shutter speed is probably as bad or worse then interlace effects would be at normal shutter speeds.

Chris Hurd · November 22nd, 2001, 09:12 AM

Rob, I don't have a whole lot of time either! ;-)
Shutter speeds are 1/60 to 1/15,000.

Adrian Douglas · November 22nd, 2001, 08:40 PM

On the PAL version standard shutter speeds are 1/50 to 1/16000

Joe Redifer · November 23rd, 2001, 01:48 AM

I find that the shutter speed effect of 1/30 simulates the Frame mode almost exactly, only brighter. Pans look the same as far as smoothness/unsmoothness are concerned. There is no motion between fields. Image quality still fantastic. Basically the same to me.

Is there any visual difference between the 1/30 shutter mode and frame mode besides the perceived increase in luminance?

November 11th, 2001, 04:21 AM	#1
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Slow Shutter Speeds in Frame Mode Does anybody know if it's possible to activate the Slow Shutter Speeds in Frame Mode on the XL1. It works in Normal but not in Frame Mode, is there a secret trick like the colour bars? __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 20th, 2001, 08:26 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Sorry Adrian, not possible! I suppose I should add this to the FAQ. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 21st, 2001, 04:54 AM	#3
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	DOH!!!!!! Oh well, just have to shoot that scene interlaced, with the slow shutter speed, I don't think anyone will notice the difference, it's only a couple of secs. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 21st, 2001, 05:21 AM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Chris... what is this? Are you saying that you cannot change the shutter speed whilst in frame movie mode? Why is this? This is very worrying... __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 21st, 2001, 07:19 AM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Rob, Read carefully what Don explains just above... of course you can adjust the normal shutter control (the round dial) while in Frame Movie mode... but you will not have access to the digital effect slow shutter speeds. That's what we're talking about. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 21st, 2001, 06:11 AM	#5
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	I believe that frame mode loses meaning at shutter speeds that are slower than the field rate. You should be able to change shutter speeds in frame mode as long as you are not in the digital effects slow shutter speeds.

November 21st, 2001, 08:39 AM	#7
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Put reaL shutter speeds on the XL2 wish list, not just digital effects. 1/6th of a second is slow enough, but make it an actual Manual Mode shutter speed, not a Auto mode effect __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 21st, 2001, 01:51 PM	#8
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	hmmm... okay... that sounds better.... what is the range of the "non-digital/effects" shutter? From where to where does it go? Thx again chris! :) Regards, __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 21st, 2001, 02:02 PM	#9
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Rob, I always encourage people to do their own research -- it is better remembered that way -- see "XL1S Specifications" link at http://www.dvinfo.net/xl1s.htm -- full info there for shutter speeds and other specs. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 21st, 2001, 06:38 PM	#10
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	I believe that all slow shutters (slower than field rate) are digital effects. The only question is whether or not the manufacturere chooses to call them digital effects, and whether or not other in-camera effects can be overlaid. That is because the data for each field has to be buffered (stored) and read later - because no matter the shutter speed, the field rate remained fixed per the video format. While fast shutter speeds can be streamed, slow shutters may have to be repeated while the next 'snap' is 'exposing' the CCD.

November 22nd, 2001, 02:33 AM	#11
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Chris, I'd like to look too, but sometimes work is too busy :) ... I followed your link but could not find the information! Either i'm not looking good (heh) or it's not on that page... Sorry... i don't have the time (at this moment) too scan your whole site... Does anyoen have this information in there heads? (which range the shutter is without going into an "Effect")... Thanks! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 22nd, 2001, 08:27 AM	#12
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	You should find that shutter speeds 1/30 and slower are effects (perhaps accomplished by field doubling on many machines), 1/60 and above are not effects. At slow shutter speeds the motion blurr associated with the slow shutter speed is probably as bad or worse then interlace effects would be at normal shutter speeds.

November 22nd, 2001, 09:12 AM	#13
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Rob, I don't have a whole lot of time either! ;-) Shutter speeds are 1/60 to 1/15,000. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 22nd, 2001, 08:40 PM	#14
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	On the PAL version standard shutter speeds are 1/50 to 1/16000 __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 23rd, 2001, 01:48 AM	#15
Joe Redifer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 290	I find that the shutter speed effect of 1/30 simulates the Frame mode almost exactly, only brighter. Pans look the same as far as smoothness/unsmoothness are concerned. There is no motion between fields. Image quality still fantastic. Basically the same to me. Is there any visual difference between the 1/30 shutter mode and frame mode besides the perceived increase in luminance?