Feeding XL1 with line level audio during shoot, possible? at DVinfo.net

Ignacio Rodriguez · August 30th, 2004, 03:21 PM

Hi, I will be in charge of sound during a multi-day shoot using an XL1 (non "S"). I would like to use my pro DAT or my DVCAM as a preamp and feed line level audio to the XL1 input. I don't know much about the XL1 audio capabilities. Will it accept line-level audio while shooting? Do I need an active accesory as the MA-200 or Beachtek DXA6 or can I get along with just the right cable and/or adapters?

Ignacio Rodriguez · August 30th, 2004, 03:35 PM

Ok I read http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article67.php and it seems, if what I read applies to the XL1 as well as the XL1S, that I will be easily able to do what I want. If I'm wrong, please alert me. Thanks.

Don Palomaki · August 31st, 2004, 04:40 AM

Be aware that the MA-100 is designed for mic-level inputs. If you connect a line-level source to the MA-100 it may distort - especially if the signal gets above around -10 dBV and it is likely to clip the signal if it is much above that.

James Emory · August 31st, 2004, 10:26 AM

I have taken board feeds several times into my MA-100 & MA-200 and the only setting that gave me perfect audio was setting the internal audio setting to ATT-20. Mic was way too hot and line was way too low. I have not had a use for line level for anything so far and I still don't understand why it doesn't work like it should. Everyone, including myself, agrees that line should be the choice from an external board or mixer but it's not on the XL-1! I have gotten absolute perfect, full sound everytime by using the ATT-20 internal setting when taking external feeds from boards or mixers.

Ignacio Rodriguez · August 31st, 2004, 10:54 AM

But given my DAT or mixer or other camera has a line-level RCA (-10) output, I can just hook that up to the XL1 line input and don't need the MA-100, MA-200, or Beachtek, right? or wrong?

Kevin Triplett · August 31st, 2004, 12:41 PM

Hi -- You can run audio cables from mixers or DATs or other line-level output devices straight into the Audio 1 (or Audio 2) inputs. But -- you probably already know this -- these are unbalanced inputs/outputs so don't run the cables too long (less than 25 feet).

Ignacio Rodriguez · August 31st, 2004, 01:05 PM

Thank you for responding my newbie questions. Running high quality cables is what I intend to do, and they probably will not need to be longer than 8m. I will put in some of those RF-reduction coils and everything will be battery powered so the possibility of radio noise is minized and ground loop is eliminated.

James Emory · August 31st, 2004, 02:06 PM

You know. You just made me realize something Ignacio. I can't believe I never thought about this. I have never actually run audio directly into the RCA inputs, only through an MA-100 or 200. Maybe that's how you can get the internal line setting to actually work for you or me for that matter. It would be a pain to have to adapt connectors instead of just using XLR though. Just another way to try if you definitely need to use the internal line setting. It's just been next to never that I've had the need to use RCA from a board or mixer. Could you just go from tape out (RCA) from a mixer/board straight into the XL-1 RCA inputs? I'm going to have to try this sometime to see what happens.

Ignacio Rodriguez · August 31st, 2004, 03:46 PM

Precisely, my Sony DA10 has RCA outs. Usually in film work they feed the video assist cart. Or I might end up using my PDX10, since it has phantom power and... oh yes, and it records video too, might make a great B-Roll, not to mention backup audio :-)

Don Palomaki · August 31st, 2004, 05:02 PM

Mixer outputs depend on the capability of the gear. MIC level output capability, if present, is often on the order of -30 dB balanced, and this should be OK with the MA-100 and the MIC ATT setting of the XL1. It is probably too hot for MIC setting, and likely too low for the line setting.

Professional mixers also usually have a balanced line level output, which is on the order of +4 dBU output, way too hot for the MA-100.

Tape outputs, if via an RCA jack, are usually unbalannced and consumer (-10 dBV) level, which should be OK with the XL1 Audio 1/2 inputs set to line level.

The MA100 and XL1 mic and mic att inputs are ~600 ohm input impedance, and this can cause level difficulties with gear (especially consumer stuff) that does not have a corresponding low output impedance.

Best to read the manual of the audio gear to determine what its output capabilities are, and unerstanding this will help determine the best connection method.

Yi Fong Yu · September 1st, 2004, 02:06 PM

a question from a newer than n00b person.

what is "way too hot" mean? overloaded? distortion?

Don Palomaki · September 1st, 2004, 05:39 PM

Yes, too hot means too high a signal, that can cause overload leading to distortion and ultimately clippping.

August 30th, 2004, 03:21 PM	#1
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Feeding XL1 with line level audio during shoot, possible? Hi, I will be in charge of sound during a multi-day shoot using an XL1 (non "S"). I would like to use my pro DAT or my DVCAM as a preamp and feed line level audio to the XL1 input. I don't know much about the XL1 audio capabilities. Will it accept line-level audio while shooting? Do I need an active accesory as the MA-200 or Beachtek DXA6 or can I get along with just the right cable and/or adapters? __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

August 30th, 2004, 03:35 PM	#2
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Ok I read http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article67.php and it seems, if what I read applies to the XL1 as well as the XL1S, that I will be easily able to do what I want. If I'm wrong, please alert me. Thanks. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

August 31st, 2004, 04:40 AM	#3
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Be aware that the MA-100 is designed for mic-level inputs. If you connect a line-level source to the MA-100 it may distort - especially if the signal gets above around -10 dBV and it is likely to clip the signal if it is much above that. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

August 31st, 2004, 10:26 AM	#4
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	ATT-20 I have taken board feeds several times into my MA-100 & MA-200 and the only setting that gave me perfect audio was setting the internal audio setting to ATT-20. Mic was way too hot and line was way too low. I have not had a use for line level for anything so far and I still don't understand why it doesn't work like it should. Everyone, including myself, agrees that line should be the choice from an external board or mixer but it's not on the XL-1! I have gotten absolute perfect, full sound everytime by using the ATT-20 internal setting when taking external feeds from boards or mixers.

August 31st, 2004, 10:54 AM	#5
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	But given my DAT or mixer or other camera has a line-level RCA (-10) output, I can just hook that up to the XL1 line input and don't need the MA-100, MA-200, or Beachtek, right? or wrong? __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

August 31st, 2004, 12:41 PM	#6
Kevin Triplett Mad Scientist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 47	Hi -- You can run audio cables from mixers or DATs or other line-level output devices straight into the Audio 1 (or Audio 2) inputs. But -- you probably already know this -- these are unbalanced inputs/outputs so don't run the cables too long (less than 25 feet).

August 31st, 2004, 01:05 PM	#7
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Thank you for responding my newbie questions. Running high quality cables is what I intend to do, and they probably will not need to be longer than 8m. I will put in some of those RF-reduction coils and everything will be battery powered so the possibility of radio noise is minized and ground loop is eliminated. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

August 31st, 2004, 02:06 PM	#8
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	MA-100/200 or RCA alone You know. You just made me realize something Ignacio. I can't believe I never thought about this. I have never actually run audio directly into the RCA inputs, only through an MA-100 or 200. Maybe that's how you can get the internal line setting to actually work for you or me for that matter. It would be a pain to have to adapt connectors instead of just using XLR though. Just another way to try if you definitely need to use the internal line setting. It's just been next to never that I've had the need to use RCA from a board or mixer. Could you just go from tape out (RCA) from a mixer/board straight into the XL-1 RCA inputs? I'm going to have to try this sometime to see what happens.

August 31st, 2004, 03:46 PM	#9
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Precisely, my Sony DA10 has RCA outs. Usually in film work they feed the video assist cart. Or I might end up using my PDX10, since it has phantom power and... oh yes, and it records video too, might make a great B-Roll, not to mention backup audio :-) __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

August 31st, 2004, 05:02 PM	#10
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Mixer outputs depend on the capability of the gear. MIC level output capability, if present, is often on the order of -30 dB balanced, and this should be OK with the MA-100 and the MIC ATT setting of the XL1. It is probably too hot for MIC setting, and likely too low for the line setting. Professional mixers also usually have a balanced line level output, which is on the order of +4 dBU output, way too hot for the MA-100. Tape outputs, if via an RCA jack, are usually unbalannced and consumer (-10 dBV) level, which should be OK with the XL1 Audio 1/2 inputs set to line level. The MA100 and XL1 mic and mic att inputs are ~600 ohm input impedance, and this can cause level difficulties with gear (especially consumer stuff) that does not have a corresponding low output impedance. Best to read the manual of the audio gear to determine what its output capabilities are, and unerstanding this will help determine the best connection method. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

September 1st, 2004, 02:06 PM	#11
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	a question from a newer than n00b person. what is "way too hot" mean? overloaded? distortion? __________________ bow wow wow

September 1st, 2004, 05:39 PM	#12
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Yes, too hot means too high a signal, that can cause overload leading to distortion and ultimately clippping. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com