Opinions on Mosiac Problems

[Jason Watt]

Does anyone in this community have any suggestions or opinions on the mosiac problems both myself and another XL1 user has had and left a post(s) with no replies. The other post is by Charlotte Haakonsen.

For myself I have another important shoot next month. Have shoot about an hour worth on a recent shoot with no problems but am at a crossroads as to whether or not I should send it back to Canon service (will it be back in time) and can they fix this - for that matter - what is causing this?

[Jimmy McKenzie]

I'll try to diagnose, but your description of the trouble is lacking details.

If you mean the random pixel drop outs on the tape or persistant horizontal bars that don't dissapear after using your head cleaning tape, then this is symptomatic of a drum needing replacement. You mention that you might have to send the camera back to Canon. Does this mean it was there recently for service work?

Depending on the last service at Canon (never?), and the throughput of tape, this is part of XL ownership. I have of 2 and both have had drums replaced after about 2 years of service.

Best to call your local servicing outlet and inquire about turn around times.
For your critical shoot, worst case scenario is to plan for the worst and have a rental unit waiting in the wings.

Best of luck...

[Jason Watt]

Jimmy- Sorry about being vague in the post, I assumed my earlier one would have been read so I'm pasting here again.
"I just got my XL1 serviced by Canon after having recording problems, black square (artifacts) appearing which effected both the audio & video. After about $ 900.00 in repairs (Replaced Zoom Assembly-Zoom motor & focus motor, replacing 3P prism, cleaned tape path, adjusted FB-camera section and recorder section, Cleaned and checked all functions to factory specs, etc.). I used the camera one or two times since then with no problems but just completed and "important" shoot (aren't they all important...) but am reviewing the tape and having the same problems again. I'm shooting on Sony DVC 60 tapes and have used the same tapes since the service.
There are sections that the tape is fine, then others where I'm having the problems..."

Now an update to this is that since then I recorded another 1 hour worth of video and for the first time at the beginning of the tape I have the horizontal bars across the tape (5 lines). Also I leave a lead in of no more than a minute on the front end but nothing is recorded until 3 1/2 minutes into the tape and it's the black bars for approximate 2-25 seconds then disappear. Also a high pitched noise is running during the black bars but I have audio. Then the rest of the tape is fine until the end around the 56 minute mark when it begins to mosiac / artifact, not bad (or as bad as the last "important" shoot - but there nevertheless.

So yes, it's been serviced but drum wasn't replaced. The service was:

1) Replaced Zoom Lens Ass'y-Zoom Motor and Focus Motor. Cleaned zoom ring and focus ring. Adjusted CZ-Focus and Iris Clean and checked all functions to factory Specs.

2) Replaced 3P Prism Ass'y-Key Ass'y and gain volume Ass'y. Cleaned Tape Path. Adjusted FB-Camera Section and Recorder Section. Cleaned and Checked all functions to fact. specs.

So I'm not sure if tape heads need to be cleaned. Just to check again, in your opinion does this sound like a bad drum? Also, is this something that Canon should have picked up in their servicing? I told them the problem with the artifacts and I thought they might have checked the drums...

I can borrow another XL1 for this next shoot but I welcome your reply and opinions about this...


Thanks!

[Lorinda Norton]

Hi Jason,

That's distressing news about the $900 repair not fixing the problem. I'm having similar trouble with an XL1s, only the "mosaic" is vertical and crawls from the right side of the frame. Intermittant audio drop outs are getting really irritating, too. Just like your experience, a trip to Canon didn't help, nor did switching from Sony to Fuji tapes.

I'm curious; when you sent the camera to Canon Service (in Irvine?) did you send a tape along so they could see the problem? I was planning on doing that so they can see and hear what's going on.

Sorry I'm not much help.

Lorinda
p.s. I really appreciate your signature line. Kanab. Hmm. Best Friends Sanctuary?

[Jimmy McKenzie]

Wow. I would return the camera and scream warranty on the completed fix that did not repair the trouble. I can't speak to the intricate tech specs of repairing the camera, but like any other contract, you deserve an expected level of merchantability when you buy anything. If you feel that they did not uphold that basic level of delivery, then the management at Canon need to hear from you.

I would be suspicious about a futher invoice to remedy.

[Jason Watt]

I've contacted Canon and told them the situation (was able to reach a specific represenative in Irvine, which I think will help) and will send the camera out on Wednesday along with a letter suggesting a gratis or close to gratis repair, although I don't know how much a drum repair would cost...but Jimmy I'm going to follow your feelings about this...

Lorinda, I think it would hurt to send the tape along with your repair and also be very specific, try and talk to someone who may even be handling the repair.

And yes, it's Best Friends, I run the Video Production department here...all one of me... :-)

[Rob Lohman]

Jason I assume you meant to write "wouldn't hurt" instead of
"would hurt". We always advice people to send a tape with the
problem (position the tape near the problem) with the camera
so the tech can look at it.

[Jason Watt]

Rob-

That is correct, sir... :-)

In fact in my current situation, I'm sending two tapes along, since they both have slightly different results (one is black bars horizontally, the other is the artifacts/black squares...)

[Arnaldo Paixao]

What do you use to capture your tapes to PC with? The XL1 or another deck/camera? I had some problems (random mosaic like effects) when capturing XL1s recorded tapes, with other equipment.

Best regards,
Arnaldo

[Lorinda Norton]

Hi Arnaldo,

You probably directed your question to Jason, but I've had some experience with the problem you mentioned. Hope you don't mind my two cents.

This is purely hypothesis, but I've decided that something about the heads alignment on the XL1s can make it not work well with certain decks--though, not always. I had to return a JVC deck ($850) because of the problems you mentioned. I thought it too coincidental that both of my cameras would have misaligned heads. Come to find out, the same tapes captured or viewed with a higher-end Sony deck looked just fine ($2000+ model). Because I can't afford a deck like that, I just use my cameras for capture to PC.

You can do a search here and find where others on this forum have had capture problems like yours.

[Arnaldo Paixao]

Hi Lorinda.

I don't mind at all. In fact I appreciate it.

In my case, tapes recorded on the XL1s would show random mosaic effects when captured through the XM2 (GL2). Capturing the same tapes using the XL1s, shows perfect results. As I am in the same boat as you (can't aford, yet, an expensive capture deck) I'll continue to capture my XL1s tapes with it.

Best regards,
Arnaldo

[Jason Watt]

Arnaldo-

To answer your question, I capture using a Sony DSR-11 deck.

[Arnaldo Paixao]

Hi Jason.

Just to have a better understanding of the problem: The artifacts you mentioned happened when capturing XL1s recorded tapes with the XL1s itself, with the Sony DSR-11 deck, or both?

Best regards,
Arnaldo

[Jason Watt]

Arnaldo-

The artifacts (in my case) were caused by the XL1's bad drums which are being repaired as we speak. I know the cause was the XL1 because if I play back the tape in the XL1 and look through the viewfinder you see the artifacts. Playing the tapes through the DSR-11 confirms this. This was all during previewing the tapes and not capturing.

Also, if you browse on ebay you may find a good used DSR-11 deck or similar for a price that may be affordable to you. I'm not in favor of capturing via the XL1 as it puts hours and usage on it which I would want to use to record.

Here's two DSR-11 on ebay that I found....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3319&item=3838012776&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


Good luck...

[Arnaldo Paixao]

Hi Jason.

In my case it's XL1s recorded tapes captured through a XM2 (GL2). And we are talking about two cameras from the same manufacturer... If I capture those same tapes through the XL1s, no problems.

Thanks for the ebay tip.

Best regards,
Arnaldo