MA-100 XLR audio adapter questions

Jeff Donald · November 30th, 2002, 06:54 AM

How are you hooking up the audio? Are you using the included mic or are you using an external mic? Any adapters for XLR connectors or balanced audio? Directions are included in the manual that can be down loaded here http://www.canondv.com/downloads/manuals.html I would be happy to walk you through the whole audio set-up, but to save time, provide the necessary details of your camera set-up.

Jeff

Don Palomaki · November 30th, 2002, 07:38 AM

As Jeff notes, there are several options for audio and use of the MA-100 with the XL1. This summary assumes the obly MIC is the external mics connected via the MA-100, and that you are not using the standad Canon stereo mic.

Connect the MA-100 RCA cords to the left and right audio 1 jacks (red and white) on the back of the body behind the hinged door next to the video output jack (not the Audio 2 jacks on the side of the handle).

Connect the MA-100 power (the 2.5mm sub mini phone plug) to the corresponding jack between the video and audio jacks on the back of the body.

Open the left side door and and set the MIC/Audio 1 input select to Audio 1. Set the Rec Level to A or M depending on whet6her you want AGC or manual gain mode.

Open the sliding door that is forward of the power/mode control dial to access the menu controls. Set the audio mode (probably to 16-bit), and then set the the Audio 1 input level range (most likely MIC or MIC ATT. (NOte that ithe MIC/Audio 1 switch must be set to Audio 1 to set the Audio 1 input in the menu)

Set the Audio monitor is set to the mode you are using (e.g., St 1). Mode is displayed on the meter.)

Connect earphones to the (green) phone jack.

Vic Owen · November 30th, 2002, 11:40 AM

Additionally, if you are using microphones that require phantom power (fairly common), the MA-100 does not supply this. You'll need to run them thru a phantom module.

Takeshi Fukushima · December 3rd, 2002, 08:40 AM

At the last shoot, we used a pin mic XLR conector, used a RCA->XLR adaptor (one piece adaptor that converts one xlr-> RCA. costed $5apiece) pluged in the Stereo 2 L and R channel.
Almost had a heart attack when I found out, my editting environment (Canopus Raptor + Premeire nor Final cut pro)(I don't understand. Why don't NLE software support 4ch. audio? Isn't 4ch audio supposed to be comon DV format?) did not support 4 channel audio. We did pull it off, but my college had to go through alot of mess.
Now I know NOT to use 4ch. audio in our editing environment at least.

So I figure I go get a adaptor that would converts XLR-> minijack. But I am aware of these nifty gadgets MA-100/MA-200 or the Beachtec DXA-4S.

Obviously the MA-100/200 has its advantage as a shoulder pad, and the beachtek is not a shoulder pad, but has audio level dials. Audio wise, are these gadgets a BIG difference from the simple adaptor just thinking of audio quality?
Has anyone used both canon and beachtek? It would be great if you can give me some advice on what to buy.

I am sure someone has brought this issue up. I tried to search the site, but wasn't able to find much.

Sorry didn't have enough time to make this a short email.!
takeshi

Nathan Gifford · December 3rd, 2002, 12:25 PM

For 4-track try using Scenalyzer. Info on Scenalyzer is at http://www.scenalyzer.com.

Happy Holidays,

Don Palomaki · December 3rd, 2002, 08:45 PM

Some capture systems do support 4-track, but most camcorders do not do 4-track just naturally, so many editors do not support it. The Dazzle-Fast DV.now family also supports 4-channel capture.

Alternatively you can also capture the Audio 2 channels usinganan analog audio card and sync in post. Works but adds a couple steps.

The MA-100/200 works well as long as you avoid line-level sources, and they provide some gain. Some folks (mainly in the GL1 community) have complained about the Beachtek not doing well with some prosumer mics (e.g., the Azdens) due to its low input impedance and the somewhat higher characteristic impedance of the Azdens..

Takeshi Fukushima · December 5th, 2002, 03:28 AM

I am using a canopus Raptor, and I believe it uses a Canopus Codec. If I use a third party program will it capture in this codec?
Takeshi

Don Palomaki · December 6th, 2002, 07:06 AM

The DV.now products capture the Audio 2 channels to individual .WAV files. Not sure about other products that do 4-channel capture.

Kelly Hoggard · February 3rd, 2003, 01:15 PM

I recently bought a shotgun mic with XLR connection. I also have an Evolution series wireless (which I really like). I am trying to set my XL1s just like the ENG cameras I have used so many years in the news biz. I have hooked both my shotgun and wireless directly into my MA-100. I understand that I may be sacrificing sound quality by going from 16bit to 12bit. Also, is it true that I cannot individually control the sound input of each channel (shotgun or wireless)? My main concern is to be able to control these inputs seperately-which I don't think can be done. If anyone has this setup (shotgun and wireless--to--MA100) please tell me the best way to get the best audio I can. Thanks

Dean Sensui · February 3rd, 2003, 02:43 PM

Kelly...

Stick to 16-bit audio. You'll have fewer problems in the long run (potential audio sync problems with some NLE systems).

You should be able to balance the wireless' level with that of the shotgun. I generally set my camera's levels manually and make sure my wireless input is adusted appropriately to get enough level yet not so much as to cause any distortion.

There's a balance control available just aft of the main level control. You can use this to fine tune the balance if necessary. I generally avoid it and fine tune in post.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

Don Palomaki · February 4th, 2003, 05:52 AM

12-bit sound wil hve somewhat limited freqeinc response (around 15 kHz) and uses some compressionto retain dynamic range. 16-bit sound is better, but mode will not hear the difference with typical progrm material.

The Audio 1 manual gain adjustment is a ganged level control and a balance control (not the most convenient way to do it but it works). The audio 2 manual gain adjustmens are a level control for each inout channel.

Kelly Hoggard · February 4th, 2003, 10:22 AM

Thanks guys, so the only way to get both channels with 16bit audio is to do what? Do I need to plug my wireless into the jack on the handle and the shotgun I bought with XLR inputs into the MA-100? Or can I plug both into the MA-100 yet I will only have one level control for both channels (which is OK if that is what I have to do to retain 16bit audio). Still a little confused.

Roddy Fisher · February 4th, 2003, 01:59 PM

External mike and 5m XLR cable work fine, and a signal is received at my NLE system's input mixer, but nothing gets through my MA100.

I have the 6V power lead plugged in, camera battery charged and camera ON.

I have taken the MA100 apart (LOTS of screws) but there is nothing obviously wrong inside.

I expect I'm missing something simple and even stupid, but don't know what.

Any ideas will be gratefully received.

With regards,

Roddy

Jeff Donald · February 4th, 2003, 03:04 PM

Check your switches and make sure they are set correctly. The switch behind the white door should be set to Audio 1 (not Mic or ATT). On the internal menu, seen in the view finder, Audio 1 in should me set to Mic.

Does the mic require phantom power? If so the MA-100 does not supply phantom power. You will need to use an external adapter to supply power. Does you mic require an internal battery? have you replaced the mic battery with a known good battery?

Don Palomaki · February 4th, 2003, 09:13 PM

You can connect both the the MA100. YOur wireless may need an XLR adapter. It would make life a bit easier if they both have about the same output level. Use the balance control and level controls to adjust manual record level.

Note that if using AGC, loud sound in one may cause the level to drop in both channels. just try to match theri output levels.

Note that some wireless systems have significantly higher output level than some shotgun mics.

November 30th, 2002, 11:40 AM	#108
Vic Owen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 540	Additionally, if you are using microphones that require phantom power (fairly common), the MA-100 does not supply this. You'll need to run them thru a phantom module. __________________ -- Vic Owen --

December 3rd, 2002, 08:40 AM	#109
Takeshi Fukushima Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 86	AUdio? MA-100, MA-200 or Beachtec? At the last shoot, we used a pin mic XLR conector, used a RCA->XLR adaptor (one piece adaptor that converts one xlr-> RCA. costed $5apiece) pluged in the Stereo 2 L and R channel. Almost had a heart attack when I found out, my editting environment (Canopus Raptor + Premeire nor Final cut pro)(I don't understand. Why don't NLE software support 4ch. audio? Isn't 4ch audio supposed to be comon DV format?) did not support 4 channel audio. We did pull it off, but my college had to go through alot of mess. Now I know NOT to use 4ch. audio in our editing environment at least. So I figure I go get a adaptor that would converts XLR-> minijack. But I am aware of these nifty gadgets MA-100/MA-200 or the Beachtec DXA-4S. Obviously the MA-100/200 has its advantage as a shoulder pad, and the beachtek is not a shoulder pad, but has audio level dials. Audio wise, are these gadgets a BIG difference from the simple adaptor just thinking of audio quality? Has anyone used both canon and beachtek? It would be great if you can give me some advice on what to buy. I am sure someone has brought this issue up. I tried to search the site, but wasn't able to find much. Sorry didn't have enough time to make this a short email.! takeshi

December 3rd, 2002, 12:25 PM	#110
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	4-Track Use Scenalyzer For 4-track try using Scenalyzer. Info on Scenalyzer is at http://www.scenalyzer.com. Happy Holidays, __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

December 5th, 2002, 03:28 AM	#112
Takeshi Fukushima Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 86	Thanks, but I am using a canopus Raptor, and I believe it uses a Canopus Codec. If I use a third party program will it capture in this codec? Takeshi

February 3rd, 2003, 01:15 PM	#114
Kelly Hoggard Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 37	shotgun and wireless to MA100 HELP I recently bought a shotgun mic with XLR connection. I also have an Evolution series wireless (which I really like). I am trying to set my XL1s just like the ENG cameras I have used so many years in the news biz. I have hooked both my shotgun and wireless directly into my MA-100. I understand that I may be sacrificing sound quality by going from 16bit to 12bit. Also, is it true that I cannot individually control the sound input of each channel (shotgun or wireless)? My main concern is to be able to control these inputs seperately-which I don't think can be done. If anyone has this setup (shotgun and wireless--to--MA100) please tell me the best way to get the best audio I can. Thanks __________________ Kelly Hoggard Freelancer Will shoot 4 food

November 30th, 2002, 06:54 AM	#106
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	How are you hooking up the audio? Are you using the included mic or are you using an external mic? Any adapters for XLR connectors or balanced audio? Directions are included in the manual that can be down loaded here http://www.canondv.com/downloads/manuals.html I would be happy to walk you through the whole audio set-up, but to save time, provide the necessary details of your camera set-up. Jeff

November 30th, 2002, 07:38 AM	#107
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	As Jeff notes, there are several options for audio and use of the MA-100 with the XL1. This summary assumes the obly MIC is the external mics connected via the MA-100, and that you are not using the standad Canon stereo mic. Connect the MA-100 RCA cords to the left and right audio 1 jacks (red and white) on the back of the body behind the hinged door next to the video output jack (not the Audio 2 jacks on the side of the handle). Connect the MA-100 power (the 2.5mm sub mini phone plug) to the corresponding jack between the video and audio jacks on the back of the body. Open the left side door and and set the MIC/Audio 1 input select to Audio 1. Set the Rec Level to A or M depending on whet6her you want AGC or manual gain mode. Open the sliding door that is forward of the power/mode control dial to access the menu controls. Set the audio mode (probably to 16-bit), and then set the the Audio 1 input level range (most likely MIC or MIC ATT. (NOte that ithe MIC/Audio 1 switch must be set to Audio 1 to set the Audio 1 input in the menu) Set the Audio monitor is set to the mode you are using (e.g., St 1). Mode is displayed on the meter.) Connect earphones to the (green) phone jack.

December 3rd, 2002, 08:45 PM	#111
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Some capture systems do support 4-track, but most camcorders do not do 4-track just naturally, so many editors do not support it. The Dazzle-Fast DV.now family also supports 4-channel capture. Alternatively you can also capture the Audio 2 channels usinganan analog audio card and sync in post. Works but adds a couple steps. The MA-100/200 works well as long as you avoid line-level sources, and they provide some gain. Some folks (mainly in the GL1 community) have complained about the Beachtek not doing well with some prosumer mics (e.g., the Azdens) due to its low input impedance and the somewhat higher characteristic impedance of the Azdens..

December 6th, 2002, 07:06 AM	#113
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	The DV.now products capture the Audio 2 channels to individual .WAV files. Not sure about other products that do 4-channel capture.

February 3rd, 2003, 02:43 PM	#115
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Kelly... Stick to 16-bit audio. You'll have fewer problems in the long run (potential audio sync problems with some NLE systems). You should be able to balance the wireless' level with that of the shotgun. I generally set my camera's levels manually and make sure my wireless input is adusted appropriately to get enough level yet not so much as to cause any distortion. There's a balance control available just aft of the main level control. You can use this to fine tune the balance if necessary. I generally avoid it and fine tune in post. Dean Sensui Base Two Productions

February 4th, 2003, 05:52 AM	#116
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	12-bit sound wil hve somewhat limited freqeinc response (around 15 kHz) and uses some compressionto retain dynamic range. 16-bit sound is better, but mode will not hear the difference with typical progrm material. The Audio 1 manual gain adjustment is a ganged level control and a balance control (not the most convenient way to do it but it works). The audio 2 manual gain adjustmens are a level control for each inout channel.

February 4th, 2003, 10:22 AM	#117
Kelly Hoggard Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 37	Thanks guys, so the only way to get both channels with 16bit audio is to do what? Do I need to plug my wireless into the jack on the handle and the shotgun I bought with XLR inputs into the MA-100? Or can I plug both into the MA-100 yet I will only have one level control for both channels (which is OK if that is what I have to do to retain 16bit audio). Still a little confused. __________________ Kelly Hoggard Freelancer Will shoot 4 food

February 4th, 2003, 01:59 PM	#118
Roddy Fisher New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Windsor, UK Posts: 5	MA100 not working - help, please! External mike and 5m XLR cable work fine, and a signal is received at my NLE system's input mixer, but nothing gets through my MA100. I have the 6V power lead plugged in, camera battery charged and camera ON. I have taken the MA100 apart (LOTS of screws) but there is nothing obviously wrong inside. I expect I'm missing something simple and even stupid, but don't know what. Any ideas will be gratefully received. With regards, Roddy

February 4th, 2003, 03:04 PM	#119
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Check your switches and make sure they are set correctly. The switch behind the white door should be set to Audio 1 (not Mic or ATT). On the internal menu, seen in the view finder, Audio 1 in should me set to Mic. Does the mic require phantom power? If so the MA-100 does not supply phantom power. You will need to use an external adapter to supply power. Does you mic require an internal battery? have you replaced the mic battery with a known good battery? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 4th, 2003, 09:13 PM	#120
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	You can connect both the the MA100. YOur wireless may need an XLR adapter. It would make life a bit easier if they both have about the same output level. Use the balance control and level controls to adjust manual record level. Note that if using AGC, loud sound in one may cause the level to drop in both channels. just try to match theri output levels. Note that some wireless systems have significantly higher output level than some shotgun mics.