MA-100 XLR audio adapter questions

[Don Palomaki]

First, some mics are more sensitive than others; i.e., the amount of voltage output you get for a give sound pressure level reaching the mic. Condenser mics usually are more "sensitive" than dynamic because they have internal amplifiers. But condenser mics also have internal noise sources (the amplifiers) so you may find that they have a high noise floor, especially the lower cost models.

Some folks say a shotgun mic has more reach than non-shotgun mics. Actually, they just typically have more internal gain and more rejection of noise from the sides and/or back of the mic. You can interpret that as providing more reach if you like. However, if you factor in the sound quality (e.g., spoken voice) and discount other sound sources and reflected sounds, they are no better than non-shotgun mics, and possibly worse for pick-up of somewhat off-axis sounds due to their frequency pickup pattern characteristics. The benefit of the shotgun is suppression of sound from the sides and back, an important benefit in many venues.

It boils down to having the right mic for the shooting circumstances, and there is no one right mic that can cover every situation.

I suspect that you will seldom find a shotgun mic used as the mic of choice where the recording sound environment and be controlled.

Mics that require power may be powered by an internal battery (e.g., NTG-2, AT837) or by "phantom power" (e.g., NTG-1) or by some proprietary means specific to the brand/model (e.g., Canon's furnished mic). Which is the better way? it very much depends on the characteristics of the mic, but the combination using phantom or battery is the most flexible for most shooters?

[Simon Duncan]

Back again guys.

This time what I want to do is set my audio up to record 4 Channels.

Actually I only need to record on 3 channels.
Channel 1 & 2 = Stereo lavalier mic
Channel 3 = Handheld Beyerdynamic Condenser mic

The deal is I want to have a lavalier mic which is stereo which I want to connect to the mini jack where the Camera Mic usually is. I will be using this mic for a sit down interview whereby I want to talent to use.

Then I want to have a handheld mic connected to my MA-100 XLR connection for me to use to ask the various questions during the interview.

The cameras menu setup is the following:
Sensor ... ON
Tally Lamp ...OFF
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... MIC
Audio 2 In ... MIC
Rec Mode ... SP"

I have played around with Audio 1 In .... & Audio 2 In .... (eg Setting to Line)
but no success.

I then select on the actual camera where the audio controls are (under the white flap) for AUDIO1\MIC to AUDIO 1

But at this stage I am getting no audio whatsoever.

Any advice would be again greatly appreciated.

PS: Audio changes / setup in the Menu should work across all types of recording? Meaning in either Auto mode or Manual Mode?

Also I have read and followed the XL1 Audio Step by Step article at
http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article71.php#3

But still no luck.

Thanks

[Cole McDonald]

Connecting to the mic miniplug has worked very poorly for me in the past. I've had to crank the gain up to max to hear anything. I think canon made a very non-standard microphone/input combination there. I had questions about this that when asked, no one on this board was able to answer (perhaps 'cause I was green and asking the wrong questions) at the time.

But a standard mic level doesn't seem to work through that input. Someone correct me, then tell me what I was doing wrong.

[Simon Duncan]

I actually get half decent sound when running my cheap lavalier mic from the mini jack Camera connection.

But my problem is I want to run the lavalier mic as well as a handheld.

[Don Palomaki]

The mini-jack mic input is 600 ohm input impedance, unbalanced at standard mic level sensitivity. it should work fine with any quality lav mic if you have an appropriate balanced-to-unbalanced adapter (if needed), but due to its low input impedance, may not give satisfactory results with some low cost consumer lav mics, or mics that require power supply over the audio cable.

To use 3 mics, you need to set up for 4-channel 12-bit ST-1/2 recording in the menus.

If using a stereo mic connected to the mic jack, you set the MIC/Audio1 switch behind the door to MIC (or mic att).

The MA-100 connects to the Audio 2 jack on the side of the handle. (The MA-100 power lead still connects to the back of the handle.) Be sure the set the audio 2 input level (from the menu) to mic or mic att as appropriate for your source

Select auto or manual level control as appropriate forre the ST1 and ST2 inputs.

And remember to set the metering and headphone monitoring to the correct setting for what you want to meter/monitor as well. Otherwise you will not see or hear what is going on audio wise.

[Simon Duncan]

Thanks Don,

I am managing to get sound out of my handheld mic via the MA-100 but no sound from the mini jack stero mic.

I have set 4-channel 12-bit ST-1/2

The cameras menu setup is the following:
Sensor ... ON
Tally Lamp ...OFF
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... ----
Audio 2 In ... MIC
Rec Mode ... SP"

But I still don't get any audio from the camera mic or when I hook up my stereo lavalier mic.

In the menu when I scroll to Audio 1 In and try selecting it to set it but I am unable to do it.

What am I doing wrong?

[Simon Duncan]

To update further.

Once my menu is as follows:

Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... ----
Audio 2 In ... MIC

I have followed Don instructions but I am unable to get 3 channels of audio simultaneously. EG Lavalier mic in stereo and handheld mic.

For example when I setup as instructed and then shut the camera down and restart in manual mode I get displayed on the camera screen:

Stereo 01
12bit ST-1, 2

I then go into the menu of the camera and have the following settings:
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... ----
Audio 2 In ... MIC

If I change the setting to:
Audio Mode ... 12bit ST-1,2
Audio 1 In ... ----
Audio 2 In ... LINE

and then close the menu I get displayed on the camera screen:
Stereo 02
12bit ST-1, 2

But then I shut the camera off and restart and it returns with the following display:

Stereo 01
12bit ST-1, 2

Which gives me the Stereo Camera Mic or Stereo Lavailier Mic functioning depending which one I have plugged in but no Handheld mic response.

Irrespective whether I set AUDIO 2 to MIC or LINE, I still get no audio out of the handheld mic.

Am I still doing something major wrong or is my camera at fault?

[Don Palomaki]

Are you pressing the Audio Monitor button to allow monitoring both audio pair of channels? See page 39 (in the case of the NTSC XL1 manual) , Making a Sound Check, and page 60, Selecting Audio Output.

[Daniel Lynn]

I just bought the MA-100 and a new Audio Technica mic new from B&H PhotoVideo.

The original problem this was when I hooked up the MA-100 there was no sound when I hooked up any xlr mics to it. Immediately I though I must be doing something wrong. I went into the menu on the XL1 and switched the input on audio 1 to "MIC" from "LINE". What I got was sound, but it was drowned out by a high pitched squeal. Unfortunately my audio 2 has never worked so I can't test it there. I then removed the xlr microphone from the MA-100 and the squeal remained. I'm not really sure what to do here.

So a few questions:

Has this happened to anyone else before? and if so, How did you resolve it?

If you own the MA-100, what settings in the XL1 do you use?

Do you have any advice for me?

Thanks in advance.

[Daniel Lynn]

I have the exact same problem. I just posted about it. If you and I both had this problem and we've both tried a lot of things to fix it, I'm going to say that one of the following is true:

A. the MA-100s that we bought are faulty

or

B. our cameras need to be repaired.

You have the original XL1 right, not the XL1s?

[Don Palomaki]

First report I recall reading on squeal that was not associated with an obvious feedback loop. (Could even be head phone coupling to the stock mic.)

Which model AT mic?

I usually use the MA-100 connected to the Audio1 input jacks.
MA-100 power cord to the 5 v jack on the back.
Audio1 input jack selected.
Usually manual audio control, but that will depend on the material being recorded.
Audio 1 sensitivity set to MIC or MIC ATT depending on the mic sensitivity adn material being recorded.

Note that the MA-100 is not intended for line level inputs, it will clip.
and it does not provide phantom power.

Also, some folks have had problems with the RCA connectors on the MA-100 becoming disconnected in side, probably due to puling on the cable rather than the plugs' body. A partial disconnect might produce unexpected results.

[Daniel Lynn]

It's the AT897. I thought for a second that it is was the phatom power issue, but then I realized that I just put in a new battery in the mic. Besides, the squeal exists without anything hooked up to the MA-100. If I take out the left RCA, the right one still squeals, so it's definitely coming from the MA-100. If I take out the DC plug, it goes silent. I know the DC adapter works fine because in doing all these tests it sure ate through the battery on my XL1.

I'm starting to think that it's got to be a faulty MA-100. I think I should send it back to B&H, but I don't want to waste their or my time in doing so if I'm just doing something wrong.

[Don Palomaki]

Originally Posted by Thijo van Beek

...
By the way: I think I found a reason why I had so much noise.
I can't test that idea yet, as the mic is in use somewhere else at the moment.
But I found out the headphones volume was wide open for some reason.
I never filmed with the mic, as I thought the noise was terrible through the headphones.
But that might (?!) have been a reason.
Maybe if I would have filmed a few shots, it would have been better then I thought.
Right?
Thijo

What you are suggesting is an acoustic feedback loop, where the mic is picking up sound from the headphone. That is very possible. While cardioid have high rejection of sound from the rear, around 20 dB at 1000 Hz), line-gradient, hyper- and super-cardioid mics, which are typical shotgun mic patterns, have much less rejection of sound from the rear of the mic (maybe 10 dB at 1000 Hz) where typically the right ear head phone sits). Having the head phone level high and having the mic gain turned high could have allowed a feedback loop.

[Daniel Lynn]

Don, let me know if this sounds like it's possible. I've been trying to find former posts about a similar problem and there's one from 2001 that you were actually contributing to.

The original post was this:

"Peter Sheppard
October 10th, 2001, 12:49 PM
I have been using the xl1 for over two years and am very happy with it except for one or two minor things that seemto have been fixed in the xl1s....However, I have found that when using external wired mikes with the canon XLR adapter, I get a whining ,high pitched sound that destroys a clean recording...this takes place only on battery power, not on AC, and only with the bigger batteries... The problem does not occur with the smallest canon batteries either... has anyone else had a similar problem. and if so , found a fix?"

I was using the biggest battery I had. I'm charging a smaller one now.

Now the big question:

I think it actually might have something to do with using non-Canon brand substitution batteries. Is that possible?

I have a dual charger/holder and when all my batteries are charges I'm going to try and the the XL1 from that and see if it helps. Unfortunately that might take a while. I'll keep you posted.

[Don Palomaki]

And if you disconnect the right lead from the MA-100 with the right connected, does the left channel still squeal?

And i assume this is with nothing connected to the MA-100 inputs?

And no squeal if the MA100 is disconnected from the camcorder?

How are you powering the camcorder? You mention both a DC adapter and a battery, but not the AC adapter? Does battery or AC adapter make a difference?

Is the squeal steady or varying, and any idea what frequency the squeal is?

I presume you are monitoring the squeal with headphones. Is it still there (recorded to tape) if you disconnect the headphones?