MA-100 XLR audio adapter questions

Michel Brewer · January 5th, 2004, 02:49 PM

the ma-100 plate will definately fit there. you can mount your battery or wireless there. I use mine with the AB plate mounts the same way and then pull out the bars a touch to fit the wireless on those.

It works quite nice that way and gives you much better balance on the shoulder. So if you can get the ma-100 top plate with the mounting bars on it (these should be included basically the same plates with knobs that your ma-200 pull out bars has) its well worth the time and you can easily have both items with no duct tape involved :O

Hope this helps, Im not sure if Ive described it well enough in either of my posts.

M

Kyle De Priest · February 24th, 2004, 05:19 PM

Ok, imagine this, a XL1s without a MA-100 or Ma-200. On the back of the camera, there are RCA inputs. If I want to plug in a XLR input, why can's I just get a RCA to XLR adapter and plug that in? I realize the MA-100 is a nice thing to have and all, but it's $ I don't have. Is there something it does other than simply convert?
btw, there may be multiple types of inputs at different moments in this camera's life. Line level inputs, dynamic mic inputs, powered mic inputs, etc.
Thanks

Vic Owen · February 24th, 2004, 05:49 PM

Actually, the MA-100 (and 200) do more than just convert the connections to RCA. It's an active unit and some amplification takes place. For that reason, I never use it with line level signals -- it will overdrive in an instant. Works OK for mics though, and provides a good shoulder rest. It does not provide phantom power.

There are lots of other options, though. An XLR to RCA adapter (for short runs), the Beachtek units, etc. I've frequently gone directly into the RCA jacks from my Mackie mixer.

You have to decide what your needs are, and what best fits the situation. The beauty of the XL-1 is the myriad of ways that you can configure it. The "right" way is the one that works best for you. Just experiment before your actual shoot, to check for levels, hum, etc.

Riku Sakari · March 10th, 2004, 11:06 AM

Hi,

is there any differences on size between these two models?
Actually I don't need all of those four xlr's but I'd still buy MA-200 if it's bigger and better for shoulder-shooting.

Chris Hurd · March 10th, 2004, 11:22 AM

There is a fairly substantial difference in the size of the XLR adapter housing which forms the shoulder support. Most folks seem to prefer the MA-200 as it provides a larger footprint for resting on your shoulder.

See this image of an MA-200.

See this image of an MA-100.

Hope this helps,

Alessandro Machi · March 16th, 2004, 02:15 PM

Has anyone had success using the Canon Shoulder Mount AND incorporating all four audio channels?

Don Palomaki · March 16th, 2004, 04:43 PM

Many people. I've shot using the standard stereo mic on Audiio1 channels, and a shotgun and wireless on the Audio2 channels. Works like a champ.

Are you having a problem? The problem most folks run into is in setup. You have to select 4-channel mode from the menu, and you have to set the audio level (mic, mic att, consumer line) for the Audio 2 channels from the menu. However, the manual/agc selection and gain controls are behind the door.

Eric Lian · March 19th, 2004, 12:26 AM

Okay,

I've seen this question posed several times, but the comments never directly answer the question. Someone always offers a workable solution - which is great - but it didn't answer the question.

Can I use the XL-1 factory mounted mic AND a lav connected to an MA-100 and hear sound from both mics at the same time?

I say NO. In my experience, whenever I engage the lav through the MA-100, it knocks out the factory mic.

Here's what I'm doing.

1. I turn the XL-1 on.
2. I set Audio Mode to 12 bit ST-1,2
* AUDIO 1 IN ---
*Audio Input Select switch set to "MIC"

** I can hear sound coming into my headphones from the factory mic.

Now...

* My Azden 500UDR receiver is connected to the AUDIO 2 RCA jacks in the XL-1 handle.

3. I scroll down to THE AUDIO 2 menu selection. I enter the selection > Choose MIC.

** I can hear the lav in my earphones, but the factory Mic is disabled.

This happens everytime.

If your suggestion is to rewire the stereo plug into the open MA-100 connection - fine - I can live with that.

But the question remains, is it possible to use the factory mic and an external mic (lav) at the same time without having to rewire or buy another adapter.

I say No.

If your answer is yes. How do you set it up?

Thanks!

Don Palomaki · March 20th, 2004, 05:17 AM

> Can I use the XL-1 factory mounted mic AND a lav connected to an MA-100 and hear sound from both mics at the same time?

Yes. Provide you use the correct setup for the XL1.

Factory mic connected to the mic input jack.
Lav connectd to Audio2 input jack.
Audio1 switch (behind door) set to MIC or MIC ATT (depending on how loud the venue is)
Audio Mode (on menu) set to 12-bit ST-1,2
Audio 2 Input (from menu) set to the output level of the lav.
Set Audio Monitor to meter/monitor the audio of interest; i.e., ST-1, ST-2, or ST-1,2 Mixed. Per the manual it takes a few seconds for the change to take effect in the headphone output.
Select AGC or manual audio level modes and adjust levels

> If your suggestion is to rewire the stereo plug into the open MA-100 connection - fine - I can live with that.

Only necessary if you want to use the factory mic in combination with other mics in 16-bit (2 chanels) mode.

Eric Lian · March 20th, 2004, 10:33 AM

Thanks, Don.

The key missing from all other responses is the audio monitor button. If someone performs all of the menu setup items, but fails to properly engage the audio monitor to listen to both channels, the assumed result iks that the lav has just knocked out the factory mic.

I'm sure there are many others who will benefit from this often overlooked, but important piece of information.

James Cooper · May 14th, 2004, 02:28 PM

I found a number of threads relating to low audio issues associated with the MA-100 -- I am having the same problem. Using Sony ECM-44B lav and Sure SM58 handheld, I am down about 6db when using AGC. The onboard mike works just fine, peaking at about 12 - the MA-100 inputs peak at 20. Controls set to Audio 1 - 16 bit and menu set to audio 1- mike. Anyone found a resolution or hint to the cause of the problem? Help appreciated.

Kevin King · May 17th, 2004, 08:41 PM

I am having low audio problems on my XL1s. Done a lot of testing, here's the setup and what I've found.

1. I'm using the MA-100. The power is plugged into the camera socket on the MA-100, and audio's on the MA-100 are going to Audio1. Onboard mic is removed.

2. I'm feeding the SGM-1x shotgun directly into the MA-100 (usually Left channel) via XLR cable.

3. I also use a Samson wireless unit. It is plugged into the other channel (Right) via XLR. This unit sounds fine.

4. My camera settings - I'm in 16bit mode, and Audio1 is set to MIC level. (I've tried MIC ATT and LINE, but as expected this makes the audio level even lower out of the shotgun).

5. Audio is set to manual on Audio 1, balance is centered, and level is maxed out.

6. The mic is turned on, has fresh batteries.

7. I actually have TWO of these SGM-1x mics, both have the same problem. When I plug one of these mics into my GL2 directly, level is just fine (and in manual, can easily be clipped if turned up too high).

8. Using this configuration, I'm able to get normal audio levels out of the wireless, but the shotgun remains low. I've tried different XLR cables, I've tried reversing the XLR inputs from L to R (to see if maybe one channel was bad on the MA-100). Same problem follows the shotgun.

9. Level gets up to 12, but only when the audio is loud or the mic is spoken directly into. It will clip, but only when thumped loud. Otherwise, spoken audio at 20 ft. or so is too low to be of use, but I get fine results at the same distance and same subject when I put the mic on my GL2.

10. I've tried shifting the L/R balance on the camera to amplify the channel of the shotgun - this helps a bit, but not much (plus lowers the level of the wireless on the other channel).

11. This happens regardless of whether or not the wireless is plugged into the MA-100.

That's lots of details. Been hunting this down for a couple months, but it's got me stumped. Any ideas? Please???

Thanks!
-Kevin

Don Palomaki · May 18th, 2004, 03:10 AM

Confirm the setup and setting again in more detail. Are you using AGC in all cases? IS the Input sensitivity set to MIC as opposed to MIC ATT at the emnu for the Audio1 Jack and with the switch when using the Canon mic?

Try manual and see if you get different results. Be aware that t the sensitivity of the standard mic may not be the same as the SM58 or ECM-44B, and this can give different results.

Don Palomaki · May 18th, 2004, 03:17 AM

What happens if you plug the SGM-1x directly into the XL1? avoiding the MA-100?

Are you using the power socket at the back of the XL1 by the Audio1 and video connectors?

James Cooper · May 18th, 2004, 04:21 AM

I think the problem is that the mikes just don't provide a high enough level (even with the MA-100 6db boost) for the AGC to peak at -12. I was hoping to find out if anyone else using the MA-100 with similiar mikes has had a low audio issue when using AGC so I would know if I have a problem with the camera, MA-100 or no problem.

Since I do peak at -12 with the onboard mike, I plan to get an adapter - XLR to mini, plug in to the onboard mini recepticle and see where I peak. If it is -20, I will know that the MA-100 and AGC are working as intended.

I can boost the audio manually and peak at -12 but the noise increase is substantial. After contacting BeachTek, it appears that they have a product that will increase S/N with built in limiting, control L and R channel and is much quieter than the Canon/MA-100. One of the shortcomings of not using a 3rd party product for audio is the inability to separately control L/R when using 16 Bit audio. But the products are an additional cost - and right now I am hoping to avoid that - I'll let you know what I find out with the miniplug test. Thanks for your input.

January 5th, 2004, 02:49 PM	#211
Michel Brewer Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ventura California Posts: 179	ma-100 plate the ma-100 plate will definately fit there. you can mount your battery or wireless there. I use mine with the AB plate mounts the same way and then pull out the bars a touch to fit the wireless on those. It works quite nice that way and gives you much better balance on the shoulder. So if you can get the ma-100 top plate with the mounting bars on it (these should be included basically the same plates with knobs that your ma-200 pull out bars has) its well worth the time and you can easily have both items with no duct tape involved :O Hope this helps, Im not sure if Ive described it well enough in either of my posts. M __________________ milking the celebrity criminal trials thank god for the freaks

February 24th, 2004, 05:19 PM	#212
Kyle De Priest Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 51	Do I need a MA-100? why not just RCA to XLR? Ok, imagine this, a XL1s without a MA-100 or Ma-200. On the back of the camera, there are RCA inputs. If I want to plug in a XLR input, why can's I just get a RCA to XLR adapter and plug that in? I realize the MA-100 is a nice thing to have and all, but it's $ I don't have. Is there something it does other than simply convert? btw, there may be multiple types of inputs at different moments in this camera's life. Line level inputs, dynamic mic inputs, powered mic inputs, etc. Thanks

February 24th, 2004, 05:49 PM	#213
Vic Owen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 540	Actually, the MA-100 (and 200) do more than just convert the connections to RCA. It's an active unit and some amplification takes place. For that reason, I never use it with line level signals -- it will overdrive in an instant. Works OK for mics though, and provides a good shoulder rest. It does not provide phantom power. There are lots of other options, though. An XLR to RCA adapter (for short runs), the Beachtek units, etc. I've frequently gone directly into the RCA jacks from my Mackie mixer. You have to decide what your needs are, and what best fits the situation. The beauty of the XL-1 is the myriad of ways that you can configure it. The "right" way is the one that works best for you. Just experiment before your actual shoot, to check for levels, hum, etc. __________________ -- Vic Owen --

March 10th, 2004, 11:06 AM	#214
Riku Sakari Tourist Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1	Ma-100 & Ma-200 Hi, is there any differences on size between these two models? Actually I don't need all of those four xlr's but I'd still buy MA-200 if it's bigger and better for shoulder-shooting.

March 10th, 2004, 11:22 AM	#215
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	There is a fairly substantial difference in the size of the XLR adapter housing which forms the shoulder support. Most folks seem to prefer the MA-200 as it provides a larger footprint for resting on your shoulder. See this image of an MA-200. See this image of an MA-100. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 16th, 2004, 02:15 PM	#216
Alessandro Machi Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA Posts: 553	Has anyone had success using the Canon Shoulder Mount AND incorporating all four audio channels? __________________ https://alexlogic.blogspot.com/ Los Angeles Emmy Winner (yes, used a video edit controller and loved doing so.)

March 16th, 2004, 04:43 PM	#217
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Many people. I've shot using the standard stereo mic on Audiio1 channels, and a shotgun and wireless on the Audio2 channels. Works like a champ. Are you having a problem? The problem most folks run into is in setup. You have to select 4-channel mode from the menu, and you have to set the audio level (mic, mic att, consumer line) for the Audio 2 channels from the menu. However, the manual/agc selection and gain controls are behind the door. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

March 19th, 2004, 12:26 AM	#218
Eric Lian Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sonoma County, CA Posts: 61	Use XL-1 Factory Mic AND MA-100 Lav? Okay, I've seen this question posed several times, but the comments never directly answer the question. Someone always offers a workable solution - which is great - but it didn't answer the question. Can I use the XL-1 factory mounted mic AND a lav connected to an MA-100 and hear sound from both mics at the same time? I say NO. In my experience, whenever I engage the lav through the MA-100, it knocks out the factory mic. Here's what I'm doing. 1. I turn the XL-1 on. 2. I set Audio Mode to 12 bit ST-1,2 * AUDIO 1 IN --- Audio Input Select switch set to "MIC" * I can hear sound coming into my headphones from the factory mic. Now... * My Azden 500UDR receiver is connected to the AUDIO 2 RCA jacks in the XL-1 handle. 3. I scroll down to THE AUDIO 2 menu selection. I enter the selection > Choose MIC. ** I can hear the lav in my earphones, but the factory Mic is disabled. This happens everytime. If your suggestion is to rewire the stereo plug into the open MA-100 connection - fine - I can live with that. But the question remains, is it possible to use the factory mic and an external mic (lav) at the same time without having to rewire or buy another adapter. I say No. If your answer is yes. How do you set it up? Thanks! __________________ www.liandigitalmedia.com www.henry1.com

March 20th, 2004, 05:17 AM	#219
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	> Can I use the XL-1 factory mounted mic AND a lav connected to an MA-100 and hear sound from both mics at the same time? Yes. Provide you use the correct setup for the XL1. Factory mic connected to the mic input jack. Lav connectd to Audio2 input jack. Audio1 switch (behind door) set to MIC or MIC ATT (depending on how loud the venue is) Audio Mode (on menu) set to 12-bit ST-1,2 Audio 2 Input (from menu) set to the output level of the lav. Set Audio Monitor to meter/monitor the audio of interest; i.e., ST-1, ST-2, or ST-1,2 Mixed. Per the manual it takes a few seconds for the change to take effect in the headphone output. Select AGC or manual audio level modes and adjust levels > If your suggestion is to rewire the stereo plug into the open MA-100 connection - fine - I can live with that. Only necessary if you want to use the factory mic in combination with other mics in 16-bit (2 chanels) mode. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

March 20th, 2004, 10:33 AM	#220
Eric Lian Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sonoma County, CA Posts: 61	Thanks, Don. The key missing from all other responses is the audio monitor button. If someone performs all of the menu setup items, but fails to properly engage the audio monitor to listen to both channels, the assumed result iks that the lav has just knocked out the factory mic. I'm sure there are many others who will benefit from this often overlooked, but important piece of information. __________________ www.liandigitalmedia.com www.henry1.com

May 14th, 2004, 02:28 PM	#221
James Cooper New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Barrington NH Posts: 7	MA-100 Low Audio I found a number of threads relating to low audio issues associated with the MA-100 -- I am having the same problem. Using Sony ECM-44B lav and Sure SM58 handheld, I am down about 6db when using AGC. The onboard mike works just fine, peaking at about 12 - the MA-100 inputs peak at 20. Controls set to Audio 1 - 16 bit and menu set to audio 1- mike. Anyone found a resolution or hint to the cause of the problem? Help appreciated.

May 17th, 2004, 08:41 PM	#222
Kevin King Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 88	Azden SGM-1x - Low Audio - MA-100 & XL1s I am having low audio problems on my XL1s. Done a lot of testing, here's the setup and what I've found. 1. I'm using the MA-100. The power is plugged into the camera socket on the MA-100, and audio's on the MA-100 are going to Audio1. Onboard mic is removed. 2. I'm feeding the SGM-1x shotgun directly into the MA-100 (usually Left channel) via XLR cable. 3. I also use a Samson wireless unit. It is plugged into the other channel (Right) via XLR. This unit sounds fine. 4. My camera settings - I'm in 16bit mode, and Audio1 is set to MIC level. (I've tried MIC ATT and LINE, but as expected this makes the audio level even lower out of the shotgun). 5. Audio is set to manual on Audio 1, balance is centered, and level is maxed out. 6. The mic is turned on, has fresh batteries. 7. I actually have TWO of these SGM-1x mics, both have the same problem. When I plug one of these mics into my GL2 directly, level is just fine (and in manual, can easily be clipped if turned up too high). 8. Using this configuration, I'm able to get normal audio levels out of the wireless, but the shotgun remains low. I've tried different XLR cables, I've tried reversing the XLR inputs from L to R (to see if maybe one channel was bad on the MA-100). Same problem follows the shotgun. 9. Level gets up to 12, but only when the audio is loud or the mic is spoken directly into. It will clip, but only when thumped loud. Otherwise, spoken audio at 20 ft. or so is too low to be of use, but I get fine results at the same distance and same subject when I put the mic on my GL2. 10. I've tried shifting the L/R balance on the camera to amplify the channel of the shotgun - this helps a bit, but not much (plus lowers the level of the wireless on the other channel). 11. This happens regardless of whether or not the wireless is plugged into the MA-100. That's lots of details. Been hunting this down for a couple months, but it's got me stumped. Any ideas? Please??? Thanks! -Kevin

May 18th, 2004, 03:10 AM	#223
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Confirm the setup and setting again in more detail. Are you using AGC in all cases? IS the Input sensitivity set to MIC as opposed to MIC ATT at the emnu for the Audio1 Jack and with the switch when using the Canon mic? Try manual and see if you get different results. Be aware that t the sensitivity of the standard mic may not be the same as the SM58 or ECM-44B, and this can give different results. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

May 18th, 2004, 03:17 AM	#224
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	What happens if you plug the SGM-1x directly into the XL1? avoiding the MA-100? Are you using the power socket at the back of the XL1 by the Audio1 and video connectors? __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

May 18th, 2004, 04:21 AM	#225
James Cooper New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Barrington NH Posts: 7	Testing I think the problem is that the mikes just don't provide a high enough level (even with the MA-100 6db boost) for the AGC to peak at -12. I was hoping to find out if anyone else using the MA-100 with similiar mikes has had a low audio issue when using AGC so I would know if I have a problem with the camera, MA-100 or no problem. Since I do peak at -12 with the onboard mike, I plan to get an adapter - XLR to mini, plug in to the onboard mini recepticle and see where I peak. If it is -20, I will know that the MA-100 and AGC are working as intended. I can boost the audio manually and peak at -12 but the noise increase is substantial. After contacting BeachTek, it appears that they have a product that will increase S/N with built in limiting, control L and R channel and is much quieter than the Canon/MA-100. One of the shortcomings of not using a 3rd party product for audio is the inability to separately control L/R when using 16 Bit audio. But the products are an additional cost - and right now I am hoping to avoid that - I'll let you know what I find out with the miniplug test. Thanks for your input.