drop out; pixelation at DVinfo.net

Patricia Leahy · May 23rd, 2004, 09:14 AM

Hello, this is my first post and have been reading the former posts regarding my problems. I have a Canon XL1. Have owned it about five years and never had any problems until now:
Couple months back decided to buy Panasonic MQ tape and switched from Panason PQ. Used only one of the MQ tapes and now back to the PQ. Of course I didn't know to clean heads between the switch of tapes.
Now: When I play back on a freshly recorded tape, there is those nasty gliches/skewed bands (horizontal) on the video. I have already head cleaned with a sony head cleaner (the maximum 5 passes) and fluffed my new tape before using it. Problems still there.
Any suggestions?
Thank you

Rob Lohman · May 23rd, 2004, 10:08 AM

I have a feeling (no hard facts) that most tape problems with
the XL1S come from Panasonic tapes. At least that seems to be
the trend. I would try another brand and cleaner if you can. I've
only once had a little dropout on a Sony tape and that was
during capture I believe.

Otherwise it might be time to let Canon take a look at your camera.

Ken Tanaka · May 23rd, 2004, 11:14 AM

My conjecture differs Rob's "... most tape problems with the XL1S come from Panasonic tapes." I believe that Panasonic actually manufactures the "Canon" branded tape and probably represents Canon's test standard. Nevertheless, I would also disagree with indicting Sony or Fuji tape. Tape is a handy 'usual suspect' that we love to blame for a bouquet of maladies. (I include myself as part of 'we'.) But in reality tape manufacturing standards, even for cheaper grades, have evolved into a very precise science.

I strongly suspect that the following attribute has more relationship to the problem: "...have owned it about five years ...". If the camera's seen moderately vigorous use over such a period it's probably time for a cleaning and recalibration by Canon. The tolerances for tape's travel over the heads are very close. Patricia's remark, "...there is those nasty gliches/skewed bands (horizontal) on the video" strongly suggest that the heads have become misaligned. Perhaps a tiny roller has burnished its spindle and now prefers to push the tape 5 microns higher across the head. Or some other such mechanical malady.

Patricia, I recommend sending the camera to Canon service. My two pence.

Patricia Leahy · May 23rd, 2004, 03:44 PM

Otherwise it might be time to let Canon take a look at your camera. -->>>

I think your probably right. Five years is a long time without any check ups/tune ups. My panasonics PQ's were always good to me but have got to take care of the work horse to keep it running.
Thank you very much!

Rob Lohman · May 24th, 2004, 02:04 AM

Just to clear my point. I've heard a couple of times on the boards
here of tape problems and most times some Panasonic tape
was involved if I remember correctly. As I indicated in my post I
have no hard facts for this. It's a "feeling".

If you send it in make sure to send a tape with it that displays
the dropouts!

G. Randy Brown · May 24th, 2004, 09:07 AM

>>>I have no hard facts for this. It's a "feeling".<<<
Well I for one have a feeling your feeling is right. There was a very long thread (I believe over on "The Long Black Line") regarding the JVC SR-VS30U capture from firewire problem (1 or 2 frame pixellation when captured to PC from this deck). I had used the Sony Premium tapes and never had a problem capturing straight from either of my XL1s' but had pixellation problems through the JVC. All kinds of theories were thrown into the mix including blaming Sony tapes. Several of us sent our decks into JVC for a modification that JVC hoped would fix the issue (it didn't). Via a phone conversation with me, a JVC tech was also trying to blame all wet lubricant tapes, so I switched to Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ and now the pixellation is happening during capture to the XL1s so I can't even recapture as a fix. Both of my XL1s' are (a little) less than a year old and both are displaying the same behavior so I'm convinced it is indeed a tape issue. I believe my next batch of tapes ordered will be the Sony Premium again. Do you think two cleanings would be sufficient prior to using the Sonys again.
TIA,
Randy

Rob Lohman · May 25th, 2004, 02:18 AM

Sorry to hear you are having such problems Randy. I'm not a real
authority on tape cleaning, so I hope someone else can answer
that for you. Good luck with the testing and do let us know how
it goes!

G. Randy Brown · May 25th, 2004, 07:55 AM

Thanks Rob, I'll do that.
Randy

Jimmy McKenzie · May 25th, 2004, 11:24 AM

Two XL ones.
3 years on 1
4 years with the other.
2 drums on the first.
One on the 2nd.
One while under warranty.
The other 2 not.
Pixelation and bars abound; alas when no one can predict.
Drum repair, drum replace.
Shoot, shoot, shoot.
Canon where would we be for not the replacement of the drums.

Sorry for the corny refrain above, but that just seemed to evoke prose.

I think Canon might replace your drum.

May 23rd, 2004, 09:14 AM	#1
Patricia Leahy Tourist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Hines, Oregon Posts: 2	drop out; pixelation Hello, this is my first post and have been reading the former posts regarding my problems. I have a Canon XL1. Have owned it about five years and never had any problems until now: Couple months back decided to buy Panasonic MQ tape and switched from Panason PQ. Used only one of the MQ tapes and now back to the PQ. Of course I didn't know to clean heads between the switch of tapes. Now: When I play back on a freshly recorded tape, there is those nasty gliches/skewed bands (horizontal) on the video. I have already head cleaned with a sony head cleaner (the maximum 5 passes) and fluffed my new tape before using it. Problems still there. Any suggestions? Thank you

May 23rd, 2004, 10:08 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I have a feeling (no hard facts) that most tape problems with the XL1S come from Panasonic tapes. At least that seems to be the trend. I would try another brand and cleaner if you can. I've only once had a little dropout on a Sony tape and that was during capture I believe. Otherwise it might be time to let Canon take a look at your camera. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 23rd, 2004, 11:14 AM	#3
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	My conjecture differs Rob's "... most tape problems with the XL1S come from Panasonic tapes." I believe that Panasonic actually manufactures the "Canon" branded tape and probably represents Canon's test standard. Nevertheless, I would also disagree with indicting Sony or Fuji tape. Tape is a handy 'usual suspect' that we love to blame for a bouquet of maladies. (I include myself as part of 'we'.) But in reality tape manufacturing standards, even for cheaper grades, have evolved into a very precise science. I strongly suspect that the following attribute has more relationship to the problem: "...have owned it about five years ...". If the camera's seen moderately vigorous use over such a period it's probably time for a cleaning and recalibration by Canon. The tolerances for tape's travel over the heads are very close. Patricia's remark, "...there is those nasty gliches/skewed bands (horizontal) on the video" strongly suggest that the heads have become misaligned. Perhaps a tiny roller has burnished its spindle and now prefers to push the tape 5 microns higher across the head. Or some other such mechanical malady. Patricia, I recommend sending the camera to Canon service. My two pence. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 24th, 2004, 02:04 AM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Just to clear my point. I've heard a couple of times on the boards here of tape problems and most times some Panasonic tape was involved if I remember correctly. As I indicated in my post I have no hard facts for this. It's a "feeling". If you send it in make sure to send a tape with it that displays the dropouts! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 25th, 2004, 02:18 AM	#7
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Sorry to hear you are having such problems Randy. I'm not a real authority on tape cleaning, so I hope someone else can answer that for you. Good luck with the testing and do let us know how it goes! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 23rd, 2004, 03:44 PM	#4
Patricia Leahy Tourist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Hines, Oregon Posts: 2	Otherwise it might be time to let Canon take a look at your camera. -->>> I think your probably right. Five years is a long time without any check ups/tune ups. My panasonics PQ's were always good to me but have got to take care of the work horse to keep it running. Thank you very much!

May 24th, 2004, 09:07 AM	#6
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	>>>I have no hard facts for this. It's a "feeling".<<< Well I for one have a feeling your feeling is right. There was a very long thread (I believe over on "The Long Black Line") regarding the JVC SR-VS30U capture from firewire problem (1 or 2 frame pixellation when captured to PC from this deck). I had used the Sony Premium tapes and never had a problem capturing straight from either of my XL1s' but had pixellation problems through the JVC. All kinds of theories were thrown into the mix including blaming Sony tapes. Several of us sent our decks into JVC for a modification that JVC hoped would fix the issue (it didn't). Via a phone conversation with me, a JVC tech was also trying to blame all wet lubricant tapes, so I switched to Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ and now the pixellation is happening during capture to the XL1s so I can't even recapture as a fix. Both of my XL1s' are (a little) less than a year old and both are displaying the same behavior so I'm convinced it is indeed a tape issue. I believe my next batch of tapes ordered will be the Sony Premium again. Do you think two cleanings would be sufficient prior to using the Sonys again. TIA, Randy

May 25th, 2004, 07:55 AM	#8
G. Randy Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 288	Thanks Rob, I'll do that. Randy

May 25th, 2004, 11:24 AM	#9
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	Two XL ones. 3 years on 1 4 years with the other. 2 drums on the first. One on the 2nd. One while under warranty. The other 2 not. Pixelation and bars abound; alas when no one can predict. Drum repair, drum replace. Shoot, shoot, shoot. Canon where would we be for not the replacement of the drums. Sorry for the corny refrain above, but that just seemed to evoke prose. I think Canon might replace your drum.