Audio Setup Question at DVinfo.net

Jason Watt · March 10th, 2004, 11:15 AM

Ok, maybe I'm not getting this, but is it possible to record audio from the onboard mic while connecting via the MA-100 (audio 1 connection on back) a wireless mic(s) - L and/or R channel XLR? I have the Sennheiser Evolution 100.

Or do I have to move the RCA connections from the MA-100 from the Audio 1 connection to Audio 2, and set audio to 12 bit St1,2.?

Thanks for any help with this..

Don Palomaki · March 11th, 2004, 05:43 AM

The simplest method is to use the 4-channel mode and connect the MA-100 to the Audio 2 inputs.

Someone with a bit of electronics skill and cunning could make an aadapter that would fpower the stock mic and mix and feed its output to one of the MA-100 inputs (ore on eof the Audio 1 RCA jacks) but that is probably more trouble than it is worth. Also, you may run into a challenge of controlling levels from two differnt mics given that the Audio1 is a level and balance control as befits using a stereo mic.

Jimmy McKenzie · March 12th, 2004, 04:16 AM

You are now two thirds of the way to having a terrific audio setup. The 100 sennheiser is perfect going into the ma100. With mine I ride the level and balance control to avoid clipping when folks applaud/yell.

Here is the additional item needed. The onboard stereo mic is quite good in it's own respect, but as Don noted, it lacks pro connections. You want to stay 16 bit. Here's where you have to spend a little cash. Pick up the sennheiser k6 module with a nice super cardioid mic, and this will take the place of the standard stereo mic. Simply plug this into the ma100 using XLR. I use this shotgun along with my 100eng and the result is stunning. When you need range across the room to a talking head , you have it without the side fill that the omni pattern of the stereo mic picks up. And since most people speak in mono, not stereo, the single shotgun channel works just fine.

If that is not in your budget at this time, I have heard of lower priced shotgun mikes but I have not tested them.

Jason Watt · March 12th, 2004, 03:36 PM

Jimmy-

As luck would have it, some equipment was donated to the company I work for and one is the K6. My setup for the Sennheiser, however, is 100ENG (SK100, EK100, ME2 LAV & SKP100 PLUG, plus and extra SK100 for the SKP). My intention was to use a lav (ME2) on the talent and use a Shure SM63 with the SKP100 plug and leave the onboard on as well. But if I use the K6, I'll have to use one of the two XLR on the MA-100, correct? Or are there adapters out there that would allow me to go from XLR to the two mini plugs on the onboard for audio one and connect the MA-100 into Audio 2? Or would getting a MA-200 resolve this problem?

Thanks for any help....

Jimmy McKenzie · March 12th, 2004, 04:29 PM

Forget 2 inputs to the onboard stereo plug. The input there is for stereo mini input. As for the use of both audio 1 and audio 2, this means dumbing down to 12 bit. Not the best option. If the ma200 can mix four XLR connected sources and map through to Stereo1 at 16 bit resolution, then that would be great ... you would have a bunch of stuff velcroed to the back of the camera.

The other and cheaper option would be to pick up a nice Behringer 12 input mixer, provided you have the camera locked down, and run all your sources mic in to the mixer, and then output with 2 xlrs cabled to the ma100.

Bon Chance!

Chris Hurd · March 12th, 2004, 04:53 PM

12-bit on the XL1 is still CD-quality audio. It ain't all that bad, depending on what you're doing.

Jimmy McKenzie · March 13th, 2004, 04:12 AM

DV audio at 48000 hz at 16 bit native waveform resolution is of course the upper limit when talking dv.

And Chris, I agree that perhaps the project might not warrant the additional bandwidth however when the final output could end up on an internet server at 22050 16 bit at the low end, or on a dvd at 48khz 16 bit at the high end, it is always nice to give yourself the best possible chance of having high quality sound.

Personally, I always record voice to the computer at cd settings, 44100 at 16 bit, and when shooting, the xl1 in 16 bit mode.

For the O.P., the decision is yours, based upon the value you require of the recorded audio track.

Jason Watt · March 13th, 2004, 09:05 AM

Jimmy-

I thought the only way to keep 16 bit is just using the onboard mic with no additional mic inputs via MA100 or Audio 2 RCA, etc?

Before using the Senn setup and having the ma100, I used the onboard and hooked the SM63 into audio2 using a XLR to RCA adapter but had to switch to 12 bit s1, s2 for it to work.

Going back to earlier threads, are you saying it's possible to use the K6 and 100eng at 16 bit?

Thanks for any replies....

Jimmy McKenzie · March 13th, 2004, 01:21 PM

Yes ... you are then sending two inputs to the ma100, while ignoring the onboard.

To expand to further inputs, and keeping the audio clean at 48000 16 bit, you would need either a portable field mixer or console that would allow for many XLR inputs. The result from the board would then feed stereo to the two xlr inputs at the camera.

If you are working alone, then this type of setup is impossible to monitor/adjust for obvious reasons.

Nathan Gifford · March 18th, 2004, 11:42 AM

Yes Chris is right about 4-track audio...it ain't bad... I use this mode all the time. It also great to use the onboard mic with the wireless if you want to be able to add some more color to the audio.

Jason Watt · April 5th, 2004, 09:20 AM

Jimmy-

Just curious...how are you using / connecting the K6 to the XL1? Are you mounting it to the camera or using it on a boom (I assume you're mounting it.) If so, are you using the factory mount, which is bigger diameter than the K6 or mounting it on top, where I normally put my VL-10Li light....

I've used the K6 on outside shoots this way, my concern is when I need to use the light....

Thanks!

March 10th, 2004, 11:15 AM	#1
Jason Watt Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO Posts: 54	Audio Setup Question Ok, maybe I'm not getting this, but is it possible to record audio from the onboard mic while connecting via the MA-100 (audio 1 connection on back) a wireless mic(s) - L and/or R channel XLR? I have the Sennheiser Evolution 100. Or do I have to move the RCA connections from the MA-100 from the Audio 1 connection to Audio 2, and set audio to 12 bit St1,2.? Thanks for any help with this..

March 11th, 2004, 05:43 AM	#2
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	The simplest method is to use the 4-channel mode and connect the MA-100 to the Audio 2 inputs. Someone with a bit of electronics skill and cunning could make an aadapter that would fpower the stock mic and mix and feed its output to one of the MA-100 inputs (ore on eof the Audio 1 RCA jacks) but that is probably more trouble than it is worth. Also, you may run into a challenge of controlling levels from two differnt mics given that the Audio1 is a level and balance control as befits using a stereo mic. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

March 12th, 2004, 04:53 PM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	12-bit on the XL1 is still CD-quality audio. It ain't all that bad, depending on what you're doing. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 18th, 2004, 11:42 AM	#10
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	Yes Chris is right about 4-track audio...it ain't bad... I use this mode all the time. It also great to use the onboard mic with the wireless if you want to be able to add some more color to the audio. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

March 12th, 2004, 04:16 AM	#3
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	You are now two thirds of the way to having a terrific audio setup. The 100 sennheiser is perfect going into the ma100. With mine I ride the level and balance control to avoid clipping when folks applaud/yell. Here is the additional item needed. The onboard stereo mic is quite good in it's own respect, but as Don noted, it lacks pro connections. You want to stay 16 bit. Here's where you have to spend a little cash. Pick up the sennheiser k6 module with a nice super cardioid mic, and this will take the place of the standard stereo mic. Simply plug this into the ma100 using XLR. I use this shotgun along with my 100eng and the result is stunning. When you need range across the room to a talking head , you have it without the side fill that the omni pattern of the stereo mic picks up. And since most people speak in mono, not stereo, the single shotgun channel works just fine. If that is not in your budget at this time, I have heard of lower priced shotgun mikes but I have not tested them.

March 12th, 2004, 03:36 PM	#4
Jason Watt Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO Posts: 54	Jimmy- As luck would have it, some equipment was donated to the company I work for and one is the K6. My setup for the Sennheiser, however, is 100ENG (SK100, EK100, ME2 LAV & SKP100 PLUG, plus and extra SK100 for the SKP). My intention was to use a lav (ME2) on the talent and use a Shure SM63 with the SKP100 plug and leave the onboard on as well. But if I use the K6, I'll have to use one of the two XLR on the MA-100, correct? Or are there adapters out there that would allow me to go from XLR to the two mini plugs on the onboard for audio one and connect the MA-100 into Audio 2? Or would getting a MA-200 resolve this problem? Thanks for any help....

March 12th, 2004, 04:29 PM	#5
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	Forget 2 inputs to the onboard stereo plug. The input there is for stereo mini input. As for the use of both audio 1 and audio 2, this means dumbing down to 12 bit. Not the best option. If the ma200 can mix four XLR connected sources and map through to Stereo1 at 16 bit resolution, then that would be great ... you would have a bunch of stuff velcroed to the back of the camera. The other and cheaper option would be to pick up a nice Behringer 12 input mixer, provided you have the camera locked down, and run all your sources mic in to the mixer, and then output with 2 xlrs cabled to the ma100. Bon Chance!

March 13th, 2004, 04:12 AM	#7
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	DV audio at 48000 hz at 16 bit native waveform resolution is of course the upper limit when talking dv. And Chris, I agree that perhaps the project might not warrant the additional bandwidth however when the final output could end up on an internet server at 22050 16 bit at the low end, or on a dvd at 48khz 16 bit at the high end, it is always nice to give yourself the best possible chance of having high quality sound. Personally, I always record voice to the computer at cd settings, 44100 at 16 bit, and when shooting, the xl1 in 16 bit mode. For the O.P., the decision is yours, based upon the value you require of the recorded audio track.

March 13th, 2004, 09:05 AM	#8
Jason Watt Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO Posts: 54	Jimmy- I thought the only way to keep 16 bit is just using the onboard mic with no additional mic inputs via MA100 or Audio 2 RCA, etc? Before using the Senn setup and having the ma100, I used the onboard and hooked the SM63 into audio2 using a XLR to RCA adapter but had to switch to 12 bit s1, s2 for it to work. Going back to earlier threads, are you saying it's possible to use the K6 and 100eng at 16 bit? Thanks for any replies....

March 13th, 2004, 01:21 PM	#9
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	Yes ... you are then sending two inputs to the ma100, while ignoring the onboard. To expand to further inputs, and keeping the audio clean at 48000 16 bit, you would need either a portable field mixer or console that would allow for many XLR inputs. The result from the board would then feed stereo to the two xlr inputs at the camera. If you are working alone, then this type of setup is impossible to monitor/adjust for obvious reasons.

April 5th, 2004, 09:20 AM	#11
Jason Watt Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO Posts: 54	Jimmy- Just curious...how are you using / connecting the K6 to the XL1? Are you mounting it to the camera or using it on a boom (I assume you're mounting it.) If so, are you using the factory mount, which is bigger diameter than the K6 or mounting it on top, where I normally put my VL-10Li light.... I've used the K6 on outside shoots this way, my concern is when I need to use the light.... Thanks!