Saturation problems with the XL1.... at DVinfo.net

May 20th, 2002, 06:50 PM

Can somebody offer me some advice? I'm a novice filmmaker (just bought the Xl1 last December)....every time I shoot outdoors..the footage comes back COMPLETELY desaturated. I was at the beach yesterday on a gorgeous sunny afternoon...beautiful blue sky, golden sand and green ocean....and all the footage is practically black and white because it is soooo desaturated. I've shot both manual and in that "Green Box" setting...I've got the ND filter on...what could I be doing wrong?

Thanks in advance!

Vinny

Bruce Moore · May 20th, 2002, 08:34 PM

HELLO,
May I suggest that you stay away from the green box.

The other problem is the beach. You might as well be in the snow. If you go to F/18+ with the ND filter and still have a problem, try changing the shutter speed( if a XL-1 and not the "s" , go to your manual pg.45 top of pg. If this doesn't work I'd send it in under warranty.

Good Luck

Bruce

Chris Hurd · May 20th, 2002, 08:44 PM

Yes, stay out of Green Box mode. While you're at it, stay out of Manual mode until you truly feel like a master of the camera. If I were you, I'd shoot in Av (aperture priority) mode. Set the exposure to something in the middle, like f/5.6 or thereabouts. The shutter will automatically compensate for the bright sunlight. You should see much better color. If not, try adding more ND, through more powerful screw-on Neutral density filters over the lens or a matte box with larger drop-in ND filters. If I'm not mistaken, a polarizing filter will help too, maybe someone else can weigh in on that.

Ken Tanaka · May 20th, 2002, 08:55 PM

One more recommendation. Given the beach setting you noted, make sure you have a UV Haze filter on the lens, too. This is one setting where this filter can provide more than just lens protection for your shooting. It won't alter your exposure per se, but it can keep you from getting the blues.

May 20th, 2002, 10:18 PM

Thank you all very much! I'm going to give those suggestions a try and see what happens!

Vinny

Adrian Douglas · May 20th, 2002, 11:28 PM

Just one more to confuse you a bit more. I shoot surfing quite a bit and I alwas use the folloying settings with good results.

AV Mode f5.6
ND off
Circular Polarizer
gain - 3db

Chris Hurd · May 21st, 2002, 05:51 AM

Thanks Adrian, you confirmed what I thought would work... Av mode at f/5.6. I figured a polarizer would help. Do you use a UV filter also?

John Klein · May 21st, 2002, 10:47 AM

I'm about to make a post about settings. Check it out.

Test out the camera! You can not trust auto modes if you want truly beautiful shots. It can work, but generally only in a vastly changing environment.

It sounds like an exposure problem. In cameraland, the saying was f/8 and pray. Well video is much less forgiving than negatives. It requires precise settings, much like shooting slides (what you see [on the slide] is what you get).

Tim Palmer-Benson · December 3rd, 2002, 08:44 AM

Just got through reading the posts on shooting in snow conditions. Seems that using Av is the best answer for starters and then going on from there.

I am just wondering about filters. I have the regular lens that came with my xL-1. Where do I get a uv filter and polarizing filter. I assume you can't use the two together?

Adrian Douglas · December 3rd, 2002, 09:19 AM

You can most certainly use the two together. I have a UV filter permmantly on my lens and alwys use a polarizer when shooting outdoors. you can get the filters from any good camera shop. I have found the best results with a circular polarizer but other people here find that a linear polarizer produces good results to.

One more thing that is particularly important when shooting in snow is to set your Exposure Compensation Dial to +1-2 stops. As the snow reflects a lot of light your camera will want to shut down the apature therefore reducing the amount of light hitting the CCDs. This results in grey snow and the desaturated colours that Vinny was experiencing. Also don't use the auto focus as it doesn't deal with the snow very well.

Elie Zakaria · December 3rd, 2002, 10:02 AM

I think I once shot in AV mode, and ended up getting a strobing effect, kinda like a flicker.
Is that the shutter trying to compensate for the various light conditions?

Please advise thanks,
Shlooky

Dean Sensui · December 3rd, 2002, 02:47 PM

Regarding shooting at the beach, I shoot here in Hawaii and have a fair amount of experience at it. Beach sand usually isn't nearly as bright as snow so it's very possible to get good detail off the sand and in the lighter shadows.

The problem could be over-exposure. Set your exposure manually and use the camera's zebra stripes, making sure you don't see any of the zebra pattern show up anywhere except in the clouds and off bright spots in the water.

Even white objects shouldn't show much zebra pattern.

Hope this helps.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

May 20th, 2002, 06:50 PM	#1
VinnyDaKid Posts: n/a	Saturation problems with the XL1.... Can somebody offer me some advice? I'm a novice filmmaker (just bought the Xl1 last December)....every time I shoot outdoors..the footage comes back COMPLETELY desaturated. I was at the beach yesterday on a gorgeous sunny afternoon...beautiful blue sky, golden sand and green ocean....and all the footage is practically black and white because it is soooo desaturated. I've shot both manual and in that "Green Box" setting...I've got the ND filter on...what could I be doing wrong? Thanks in advance! Vinny

May 20th, 2002, 08:34 PM	#2
Bruce Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 57	HELLO, May I suggest that you stay away from the green box. The other problem is the beach. You might as well be in the snow. If you go to F/18+ with the ND filter and still have a problem, try changing the shutter speed( if a XL-1 and not the "s" , go to your manual pg.45 top of pg. If this doesn't work I'd send it in under warranty. Good Luck Bruce __________________ There are only three things that will kill you: Bad Luck, Stupidity, and Time.

May 20th, 2002, 08:44 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Yes, stay out of Green Box mode. While you're at it, stay out of Manual mode until you truly feel like a master of the camera. If I were you, I'd shoot in Av (aperture priority) mode. Set the exposure to something in the middle, like f/5.6 or thereabouts. The shutter will automatically compensate for the bright sunlight. You should see much better color. If not, try adding more ND, through more powerful screw-on Neutral density filters over the lens or a matte box with larger drop-in ND filters. If I'm not mistaken, a polarizing filter will help too, maybe someone else can weigh in on that. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 20th, 2002, 08:55 PM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	One more recommendation. Given the beach setting you noted, make sure you have a UV Haze filter on the lens, too. This is one setting where this filter can provide more than just lens protection for your shooting. It won't alter your exposure per se, but it can keep you from getting the blues. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 20th, 2002, 10:18 PM	#5
VinnyDaKid Posts: n/a	Thank you Thank you all very much! I'm going to give those suggestions a try and see what happens! Vinny

May 20th, 2002, 11:28 PM	#6
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Just one more to confuse you a bit more. I shoot surfing quite a bit and I alwas use the folloying settings with good results. AV Mode f5.6 ND off Circular Polarizer gain - 3db __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

May 21st, 2002, 05:51 AM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Thanks Adrian, you confirmed what I thought would work... Av mode at f/5.6. I figured a polarizer would help. Do you use a UV filter also? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 21st, 2002, 10:47 AM	#8
John Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 182	I'm about to make a post about settings. Check it out. Test out the camera! You can not trust auto modes if you want truly beautiful shots. It can work, but generally only in a vastly changing environment. It sounds like an exposure problem. In cameraland, the saying was f/8 and pray. Well video is much less forgiving than negatives. It requires precise settings, much like shooting slides (what you see [on the slide] is what you get). __________________ < >< . . . . . < >< . . . . . < ><

December 3rd, 2002, 08:44 AM	#9
Tim Palmer-Benson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Morgan, Vermont Posts: 130	settings for snow Just got through reading the posts on shooting in snow conditions. Seems that using Av is the best answer for starters and then going on from there. I am just wondering about filters. I have the regular lens that came with my xL-1. Where do I get a uv filter and polarizing filter. I assume you can't use the two together?

December 3rd, 2002, 09:19 AM	#10
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	You can most certainly use the two together. I have a UV filter permmantly on my lens and alwys use a polarizer when shooting outdoors. you can get the filters from any good camera shop. I have found the best results with a circular polarizer but other people here find that a linear polarizer produces good results to. One more thing that is particularly important when shooting in snow is to set your Exposure Compensation Dial to +1-2 stops. As the snow reflects a lot of light your camera will want to shut down the apature therefore reducing the amount of light hitting the CCDs. This results in grey snow and the desaturated colours that Vinny was experiencing. Also don't use the auto focus as it doesn't deal with the snow very well. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

December 3rd, 2002, 10:02 AM	#11
Elie Zakaria Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 38	I think I once shot in AV mode, and ended up getting a strobing effect, kinda like a flicker. Is that the shutter trying to compensate for the various light conditions? Please advise thanks, Shlooky

December 3rd, 2002, 02:47 PM	#12
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Regarding shooting at the beach, I shoot here in Hawaii and have a fair amount of experience at it. Beach sand usually isn't nearly as bright as snow so it's very possible to get good detail off the sand and in the lighter shadows. The problem could be over-exposure. Set your exposure manually and use the camera's zebra stripes, making sure you don't see any of the zebra pattern show up anywhere except in the clouds and off bright spots in the water. Even white objects shouldn't show much zebra pattern. Hope this helps. Dean Sensui Base Two Productions