HELP! Flickering line top/bottom of frame! at DVinfo.net

Simon Phillips · January 27th, 2004, 08:22 AM

Hi - I have just purchased a second hand Canon XL1s - seems to be in good condition generally. Video taken with it looks superb apart from a little problem...

When I transfer the video to PC via Firewire there are two flickering lines about 2 pixels high - one at the very top of the frame and one at the very bottom.

I have read all the threads about the "black bar" problem but this seems to be different - I have tried putting the tape into my little Sony and the problem is still there (footage shot on the Sony is fine tho).

Any ideas please ?

Thanks, Simon.

Chris Hurd · January 27th, 2004, 08:43 AM

Hi Simon,

Believe it's very similar to the "black line" thing you've read about. Should not be considered an issue since it's outside of the TV-safe area. If your output is intended for computer screens instead of TV's, just crop the image to the TV-safe area and everything should be fine. Hope this helps,

Simon Phillips · January 27th, 2004, 08:45 AM

Hi Chris - thanks for the answer. I kinda guessed as much but it is still pretty annoying! Do you think it is worth having it serviced by Canon anyway? Does anyone know how much a service costs in the UK ?

Rob Lohman · January 27th, 2004, 03:34 PM

I don't think getting it serviced will help at all. It is definitely
outside the TV safe zone and Canon has clearly stated (forgot
where) sometime that the TV safe zone image should be used.

For most people this isn't a real big problem, this is why:

1) output to VHS tape or DVD will not reveal this "issue" on a TV. I'm not sure whether it would turn up on a projector

2) output to the web. Since you are not going to output at full resolution to the web there is no harm in cropping a few lines before resizing it to web resolution (even the resizing might get rid of it on its own)

3) A lot of people are letterboxing (ie, putting 16:9 black bars on top of your video) their footage for a more filmic aspect ratio. This will also remove those problem area's

Also if it really is an issue, just add blackbars that are 2 pixels
high on both the bottom and top. These will blend in nicely with
the pixels on the side of the image and no-one will ever know
you dropped a few lines of data.

Simon Phillips · January 28th, 2004, 05:16 AM

Hi Rob,

You are right. My first reaction was one of feeling slightly cheated but then I realised - "hey, what does it matter!" - I have played with the camera over the last few days and it is a very nice piece of kit. I actually think the balance is good (although most people complain).

I did a quick test shoot in my office with 2 redheads set up for light and both the XL1 and the little Sony TRV14E - both cameras were in full auto mode (XL1 on Green Square mode). The footage from the Sony was FAR superior - better focus and colour reproduction - much sharper in general. I am thinking that the XL1 really needs to be controlled in manual mode to get the best from it? Am I right ?

Don Palomaki · January 28th, 2004, 05:50 AM

In the hands of a good shooter, the manual will produce better images than full auto mode.

The Canon image is different from the Sony, a bit softer and warmer. All depends on what you and your customer like. The XL1s allows more conrol over image color and sharpness than the older XL1.

January 27th, 2004, 08:22 AM	#1
Simon Phillips Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3	HELP! Flickering line top/bottom of frame! Hi - I have just purchased a second hand Canon XL1s - seems to be in good condition generally. Video taken with it looks superb apart from a little problem... When I transfer the video to PC via Firewire there are two flickering lines about 2 pixels high - one at the very top of the frame and one at the very bottom. I have read all the threads about the "black bar" problem but this seems to be different - I have tried putting the tape into my little Sony and the problem is still there (footage shot on the Sony is fine tho). Any ideas please ? Thanks, Simon.

January 27th, 2004, 08:43 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Simon, Believe it's very similar to the "black line" thing you've read about. Should not be considered an issue since it's outside of the TV-safe area. If your output is intended for computer screens instead of TV's, just crop the image to the TV-safe area and everything should be fine. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 27th, 2004, 03:34 PM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I don't think getting it serviced will help at all. It is definitely outside the TV safe zone and Canon has clearly stated (forgot where) sometime that the TV safe zone image should be used. For most people this isn't a real big problem, this is why: 1) output to VHS tape or DVD will not reveal this "issue" on a TV. I'm not sure whether it would turn up on a projector 2) output to the web. Since you are not going to output at full resolution to the web there is no harm in cropping a few lines before resizing it to web resolution (even the resizing might get rid of it on its own) 3) A lot of people are letterboxing (ie, putting 16:9 black bars on top of your video) their footage for a more filmic aspect ratio. This will also remove those problem area's Also if it really is an issue, just add blackbars that are 2 pixels high on both the bottom and top. These will blend in nicely with the pixels on the side of the image and no-one will ever know you dropped a few lines of data. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 28th, 2004, 05:50 AM	#6
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	In the hands of a good shooter, the manual will produce better images than full auto mode. The Canon image is different from the Sony, a bit softer and warmer. All depends on what you and your customer like. The XL1s allows more conrol over image color and sharpness than the older XL1. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 27th, 2004, 08:45 AM	#3
Simon Phillips Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3	Hi Chris - thanks for the answer. I kinda guessed as much but it is still pretty annoying! Do you think it is worth having it serviced by Canon anyway? Does anyone know how much a service costs in the UK ?

January 28th, 2004, 05:16 AM	#5
Simon Phillips Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 3	Hi Rob, You are right. My first reaction was one of feeling slightly cheated but then I realised - "hey, what does it matter!" - I have played with the camera over the last few days and it is a very nice piece of kit. I actually think the balance is good (although most people complain). I did a quick test shoot in my office with 2 redheads set up for light and both the XL1 and the little Sony TRV14E - both cameras were in full auto mode (XL1 on Green Square mode). The footage from the Sony was FAR superior - better focus and colour reproduction - much sharper in general. I am thinking that the XL1 really needs to be controlled in manual mode to get the best from it? Am I right ?