EF Lens adapter / EF Lenses / EOS Lens

[Gareth Trezise]

Thanks Tom,

Yes I certainly know what it is capable of. By tomorrow I will have it. Obviously I'm not just buying it for the XL1. It will also get a lot of use on my Canon EO3 but I have specifically bought it now for Kenya because it's focusing range is going to be ideal.

The main point to my question was the plate/rods support. Is it necessary?

From a reply in another website forum who has used this lens before apparently not!

It is only 460 grams heavier than the Manual 16X Lens and that lens feels fine when using it on my 501 Head.

There is an article on the XL1 Watchdog site

(http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/images/images09.php)

which actually shows a picture of them using it on the XL1 and some of their results and I'm sure looking at it there is no support. The guys hand is by the lens but I bet he is focussing and not holding the lens. If anyone knows of a correct email address for Jim Kinsey I wouldn't mind having it. The one in the article is not valid anymore.

Anyone else got any other information particularly if they have experience of it?

Gareth

[Don Berube]

It really isn't necessary with this lens. Iv'e used this lens in the past both handheld and on a tripod. With the IS switched on, it is amazingly smooth as the IS was originally designed to work with the larger image plane of a 35mm still camera.

The 501 head will do, but make sure you pack along a tripod pan handle so that you can apply weight to the back of the XL1S (on the tripod handle) as needed with your hand while focusing. You would realize even smoother tilts with this lens with the 502 head.

What sticks will you be using with the 501 head? Hopefully, the sticks you are using will alllow you to go very low to the ground - so that you can maintain a low profile when shooting.

Where will you be going exactly in Kenya? It's beautiful there. I have been there twice and also visited the Nairobi National Wildlife preserve and also the Sudan desert region. You'll have plenty of light there! In fact, too much light - so do plan on packing some ND and Polarizing filters and also pack a few white towels to keep your camera cool in the hot African sun.

Please do let us know how you make out!

- don

[Russ Gutshall]

Hi Gareth,

I have used the above lense on my xl-1. The major problem is that anytime you push or pull the lense - you will also be applying pressure to the entire system - even if just a little. Therefore, your tape image will show movement. I have found that you will lose a bit of footage (due to movement) until you "latch onto" your subject. Then you should get some really good stuff. I shoot the camera in aperture mode - to get really good d of field. Don't leave your normal lense home - take it too - for vistas. And try to find a vacuum cleaner when you drive thru any towns, stay at hotels, etc. IT IS BETTER TO SUCK DUST OUT THAN BLOW IT IN - by using compressed air or bulb blower. I found this out in Namibia !

Russ

[Gareth Trezise]

Hi Don,

Thank you for the information.
You are not the first person to say I don't really need any extra support for this lens. Iv'e had the lens since Friday but due to other committments haven't had the opportunity to go out and use it. Hopefully this weekend I will.
I did find the time to quickly try it on the XL1 just to see how the weight felt and it wasn't as bad as I had anticipated, even with the lens fully extended and you could loose a bit more weight by taking off the tripod collar.
My main concern was with prolonged use it might damage either the electrical contacts and/or lens mounts on the adapter and XL1. You think not?
I use a Vinten Pro 5 system which has been very good so far but I hadn't intended on taking it to Africa because we will be working mainly from a jeep with a couple of other people who will also have equipment so tripods would be a squeeze. One of my options for the jeep was to attach a Manfrotto Super Clamp to the bars on the jeep and then attach the head to that. These superclamps can take a load of 15kg. I haven't heard of a 502 Head. 503, 505, 510 yes but not a 502.
I'm going to the Maasai Mara. It's a training trip hosted by Piers Warren and the BBC Big Cat Diary host Jonathan Scott with Camera specialist Warren Samuels.
From your experience would you say an NDX4 be okay?
Going back to the lens support I have exchanged a few emails with a company called Cavision in Canada who say their RS152511 system would do the job at $210. See this webpage.
http://www.cavision.com/Mattbox/rods.htm
This is fine if correct but I'm UK and they are Canada. Could be a waste of money if it's no good.
Optex over here say they could make something but are quoting prices at over £294 Thats roughly $470 which seems a bit excessive to me!
Nice website by the way.
Whilst writing this reply I see another reply by Russ Gutshall. Hadn't really thought about any problems with pulling or pushing the lens whilst filming. Will have to think about that one.
Do I assume you had an unfortunate experience Russ in Namibia?
I will be taking the standard and manual 16X lens and probably a macro lens incase something small comes my way!
Many thanks Don and Russ for your reply.
PS. I'm over your way in May for a weeks holiday with my son. New York actually. Really looking forward to visting your country.

Gareth

[Jeff Donald]

I've been using 35mm lenses with video cameras for years. First with 2/3" chip outfits and progressing downward until arriving at DV. The one consistent in all the years is the need to brace the lenses from vibration, supply support to the lens for better balance and protect the camera/lens mount from damage. I've designed various braces to support different lenses on different cameras. Usually the costs never go over $100 if you can find a cooperative machine shop.

The push/pull design is the one feature I don't like about the 100-400mm IS lens. It is very difficult to focus without zooming slightly or vice versa. The two touch zooms are better at maintaining focus and zoom, but preclude doing both simultaneously unless you have a third hand. If you prefer the two touch design I would recommend the Canon 35-350mm zoom.

[Jacques Mersereau]

<<<-- Originally posted by Gareth Trezise : Hi Don,
<SNIP>
I use a Vinten Pro 5 system which has been very good so far but I hadn't intended on taking it to Africa because we will be working mainly from a jeep with a couple of other people who will also have equipment so tripods would be a squeeze.
<SNIP>

Hey Gareth,


I have the 100-400 EOS and it is a HUGE improvement over the stock 16X
in both sharpness and color saturation. You are going to love it so much that
you won't want to go back to Canon video glass.

That said, IMO you are going to have a lot of trouble trying to shoot
out of a jeep filled with people and still get stable footage.
I use a Vinten vision 3, which is a very smooth rig, but even with that,
at full zoom, the slightest
vibration from one's hands results in shaky footage.
It will be difficult to make your passengers
keep perfectly still, which is what you'll need them to do if you want
'national geographic' quality footage.

Fully zoomed out w/ the 100-400mm, you get about the same optics as the
Canon16x *fully zoomed in w/ the 1.6 extender!*
IF you could find a way to take your Vinten and are able to
jump out of the jeep you'll get some great images.

PS You will also want to think about building some kind of (additional)
tripod plate that can screw into both the camera
AND the lens so they are both supported and solid.

Best of luck!

[Jeff Donald]

The 100-400mm IS has a 35mm equivalent of approximately 720-2880mm. In terms of magnification, 2880mm is about 55X. At full zoom it will make distant objects 55 times larger or appear 55 times closer.

The 16X XL1 lens has a 35mm equivalent of 40-635mm (64mm to 1020mm zoom with the 1.6X convertor).

These types of magnification make even the slightest movement in a vehicle, huge amounts of movement when viewed through a lens at 55X.

[Don Berube]

Gareth and Jacques,

As Jeff points points out, the 100-400mm IS USM lens setup you have will give you significantly more telephoto reach than you would achieve with just using the 16X Manual/ Servo lens with the 1.6X extender. Although, since it is not too expensive, I would pack along the 1.6 extender for those times where you want something "in the middle" - more than just using the 16X Manual/ Servo alone and less than using the 100-400mm. I use the 1.6X extender on occasion for just these instances, in fact I always keep it in my "to go" bag.

As far as shakiness goes, I will again testify that the 100-400mm IS USM lens *with the IS switched on*, placed in front of the XL1S is remarkably smoother than you would expect, even at full telephoto. The IS on that lens was designed for the larger image plane of a 35mm still camera. When used on the Xl1S, it reduces shakiness considerably. The shakiness could be described as *significantly less shaky* compared to using that same focal length on a lens that did not utilize Canon's Image Stabilization.

If you are using the 100-400mm IS USM lens either handheld or on a tripod, you do not necessarily and absolutely need to use a seperate support system for the lens. Of course with prolonged use it is most assuredly a good idea and will certainly lessen the wear and tear on the XL mount. However, in *your* case, being in a vehicle and moving about, it would be absolutely necessary to use an additonal lens support which took advantage of the mount on the tripod collar of the lens. You will be subjected to an intense amount of high-frequency vibrations driving about in that JEEP.

Now, I based my previous comments on the scenario of being handheld in a static position or with the camera placed on a decent static tripod in a *non-moving* camera vehicle. Being set up in a moving vehicle - a JEEP no less - is entirely different. I have shot in Africa before and I do not recommend keeping the camera set up on top of a tripod while moving - quite simply, the roads there are extremely bumpy and unpaved and it will literally be impossible to achieve any type of useable shot without using a SteadiCam system - and that is a whole different subject! While you are driving around in the JEEP hunting for your next shot, you should keep the camera in a padded holster case *in your lap* while moving about to protect the camera from the high-frequency vibrations it would be subjected to if mounted on support while driving about.

Exactly what type of JEEP will you be using? If you are referring to using a Wrangler-style JEEP and you intend to have three different crew people shooting at the same time, you will be significantly reducing the number of chances you will have to *pull off* any useable shot (with any wildlife actually being in your shot). What I mean is that you will have to be very stealth-like and quiet when preparing for any shot. Just the subtle sound of the 'clicking noise' made when locking a camera onto a tripod head can scare off the wildlife as they are very keen to any unnatural sound and movements made in their environment. Be aware of this and plan accordingly. I'm sure you have addressed this issue with your crew but it can never be overstated. You need to blend in to the environment and maintain an extremely low impact. Having three people in a small JEEP bumping into each other may very well prove inhibiting. You imply that your goal is to achieve "National Geographic" quality shots, well, consider that these NG photogs spend days on end in one spot just to pull off one or two useable shots of wildlife.

As far as ND, I would pack some TIFFEN .6 and .9 FULL ND filters as well as a Polarizer. During the day (assuming that it is a bright blue shy day), keep the Polarizer on for the most part and add the .6 or .9 as needed. Shoot in -3db as much as possible and increase the shutter speed if you need to adjust for an overexposed image. Knock the Sharpness with a custom preset down two notches and boost the Saturation up one or two notches. Knock the Black Level control down one to two notches.

Will you be shooting in Frame Mode? How will you be repurposing this footage?

- don

[Gareth Trezise]

Thank you very much for the latest replies. All of which are very informative and appreciated.
Basically depending on where I'm using it governs if I need extra support and I agree with all of you in a jeep I will it.
Don, I hadn't even thought about the vibrations caused by other people/vehicle moving about but that's exactly the sort of feedback I'm looking for and why this website is the best I've come accross. People actually talk to eachother and give good honest answers.
It's all about preparation which is what I'm trying to do. Some of it I have already thought about and some not. I rather know now before I go about what I can expect rather than find out these things when I'm there and it's all too late.
I've never worked from a jeep before but I had already thought about removing the camera from the Head when vehicle in motion and even taking the 100-400mm lens off if that's the one I had on at the time.
I must point out that this trip is purely a training trip and whilst yes I/We want to get the best footage we can there isn't no intention to market our final product. We just what too learn so refering to your comment Don about me implying my goal is to have National Geographic quality shots which I guess we all strive for I think it was Jacques that mentioned National Geographic, not me.
I will try and take a tripod and I do have the 1.6X extender so that was always coming with me.
Jacques, I wouldn't think twice about jumping out of the Jeep but for health & safety I don't think our hosts will allow it but if they do and someone is watching my back I will be outside with a tripod. I do most things to get the best shot. You mention you have this lens. Could you give me details of your support and where I could get it from?
I'm still looking at this rods system that Cavision do but one very important thing that a couple of you have mentioned is making use of the tripod collar on the lens which I don't think this cavision support does. It's basically a bracket that rests under the barrel.
Anymore feedback would be much appreciated in particular where I can get this support from.
I will be trying out both shooting modes, normal and frame.

Gareth

[Andrew Leigh]

Hi Gareth,

I shoot regularly in the Kruger National Park S.A. I have learnt about the confines of a vehicle and some of the special problems that one needs to be cogniscent of in African bush. I am not trying to teach you to suck eggs here but just some issues that have caught me out.

a) As there is a large difference between viewfinder height and lens, one often finds that the vehicles wing mirrors get in the way if you film from the driver / passenger seat.

b) I agree, with all those people on the vehicle you will not keep the lens still. One of the better options and one which dampens vibrations better than clamps and tripod is to have a decent large "bean bag" as well to shoot from.

c) One of the forum members Ronald Pfister who resides in Switzerland came up with a really nice camera support system for vehicles, you may wish to send him an e-mail to get more detail.

d) Africa's sun is harsh and bright. This often forces one to use very small apertures which are known to create internal diffraction and a consequent loss of image quality. See the XL1 Watchdog for the article "Soft Focus Problem and Workaround". I shoot exclusively in Av mode and keep my lens at around F 5,6 or F8,0. In order to achieve this one needs a Polariser and the ND filter on else there is just too much light.

e) Owing to the harshness of light I always shoot with the Zebra Pattern on so that the important bits are correctly exposed.

f) I also make extensive use of the Av Shift wheel to correctly expose birds and the like when against bright backgrounds.

g) Learn to shoot with your arm hanging out the window with the XL1 held low and close to the road surface. I have got some great shots of animals running next to the vehicle.

e) Although I do not have the 100 - 400 I do use the 75 - 300 IS USM lens. A point that Don Berube made which I am not fully clear on is that when on a tripod one simply must have the IS Off. Perhaps Don is referring to keeping the IS on in the one plane only, perhaps you could clarify this please Don. With my lens when the IS is on, the XL1 on a tripod and you stop panning the image continues to move.

f) As the EOS lenses don't allow for auto focus one would do well to practice focussing. Practice with things moving toward you and away from you so you get the feel of which way to turn the focus ring. I still battle with this.

g) Regularly set your white balance, the lighting conditions can change rapidly. If you don't trust yourself to manually set your white balance then as a forced discipline switch the XL1 off between shots. The white balance will automatically be refreshed on startup. I once forgot and had one hour of lions feeding in the late afternoon with the mornings white balance settings...not so clever.

h) I always travel with a towel that I throw over the XL1 as a dust jacket, it is also handy for wiping sweaty hands on before handling the XL1. A soft 40mm wide paint brush is great for removing dust from your kit, you won't be sorry for packing one.

i) The single biggest problem for me is the sound. I don't have a parabolic mic yet but I find it near impossible to get good sound. Perhaps do some research on that before you go.

j) If you could run out of it....take it with you. Assume that you will not be able to buy CR 2025 batteries, tapes etc.

k) I bought a Frezzi Mini Dimmer and find this invaluable as a fill light in darkening conditions. It offers one that little edge in one or two more stops.


Good Luck
Cheers
Andrew

[Jeff Donald]

I use the IS very sparingly. I do a lot of flight shots and IS on a tripod just doesn't work under those conditions. I've had some luck with using it in supposedly stable vehicles. I prefer bean bags to tripods if I'm shooting out of the top of the vehicle. Shoots out of the windows are tough because of the contortions you go through to get your eye near the viewfinder. However, I have had limited success using the IS under both those situations.

[Don Berube]

<<<<I use the IS very sparingly. I do a lot of flight shots and IS on a tripod just doesn't work under those conditions.

- Flight shots??? Please clarify. Also, which lens were you using at the time and what were the typical focal lengths you were using (wide/ mid or tele)?

>>>>I've had some luck with using it in supposedly stable vehicles. I prefer bean bags to tripods if I'm shooting out of the top of the vehicle.

- This is a not such a bad idea to use a beanbag as a substitute for a tripod in this scenario. Just make sure you handhold that camera in a "quickdraw-style" padded case when you are in transit. I wouldn't recommend using a beanbag as a substitute for a tripod when you aren't in a vehicle though, I'd much rather prefer to use a professional level fluid head on some lightweight low-profile sticks, especially if you are planning on doing any elegant pans of vistas, animals, people, etc. When we were in the Sudan we used a set of lightweight photo tripod sticks with a decent head as a substitute for the much bulkier and heavier Sachtler as we were doing a lot of hiking around for miles on end, in addition to traveling about in the back of a 4x4 pickup. Having just a beanbag and no tripod would have comprimised the types of shots we were able to pull off with the smooth pan/ tilt head we used.

>>>>Shoots out of the windows are tough because of the contortions you go through to get your eye near the viewfinder.

- Not necessarily if you are using a B&W viewfinder with the Tiffen Tele-2x
http://www.tiffen.com/tele2x.htm
Using a Tele-2x makes these type of shots from windows of vehicles significantly easier, and cranking up the peaking control a bit helps to indicate when you have a sharp focus. Don't forget to be on top of the White Balance for every different shot. Also, when I shoot from a window in these types of situations, I will replace the standard 'plastic' sunhood with a rubberized sunhood - that way it is easier to hold the camera steady against the glass if you need to get right up to the window to avoid any reflections - due to the rubber being a bit flexible and 'sticky' against the glass. Sometimes I will also use a monopod with a simple pan/ tilt head mounted on the top to help stabilize the camera in these situations. One last thing, if shooting from a vehicle with a lot of potential for interior reflections to show on the window glass, I have sometimes used a piece of black cloth taped to the outer edges of the window with gaff tape and draped the cloth over my head (and the camera) which effectively eliminates those reflections. I have found this overall combo makes it significantly easier and possible to pull off a great deal of highly useable shots when shooting from a vehicle window. Having the IS switched on during these times has helped considerably at certain focal lengths.

Don't forget to pack a small bottle of glass cleaner and a chamois cloth to keep the area of the window you are shooting through clean and smudge-free.

- don

[Jeff Donald]

A flight shot is when you try to follow a large bird in flight. I use the 100 - 400mm sometimes, other times a slightly smaller zoom, maybe the 16X or 14X Canon XL lenses or the 28 - 135mm EF IS lens. In my experience, IS on a tripod just doesn't work well.

[Gareth Trezise]

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for all the pointers. A lot of them I have already thought of and currently do.
I nearly always use Av Mode and have the Zebra turned on and constantly use the AE Shift, Gain and various filters to control my shots.
White Balance I am constantly monitoring manually. I too have learnt from experience with this one!
I have a mediumish beanbag which I am taking. I must admit I haven't used it much but I do like the idea of using it as another alternative. I might just invest in another slightly larger one and do a little practice before I go.
Paint brush maybe. I normally use soft cleaning cloths but I guess for it's cost, size & weight I might aswell pack one. Living out in Africa you are far the best judge of the conditions. At the moment I can only imagine what it's like.
I like the idea of a few white towells which I think Don suggested too. Very simple and practical but that's one thing I wouldn't have thought of. Likewise with the rubber sunhood. I have one but wasn't going to take it. Hopefully though I won't be shooting much,if at all, through the glass of a vehicle window.
I haven't heard of a Frezzi Mini Dimmer. I assume it is some sort of light? Anyway I'm taking a Paglight C6 for any situation where I might need it. I mainly taking it for the evenings back in the tent. Thought I might do a little video diary while I'm there. Might aswell. It's not a trip one can afford to repeat too often if at all.
I was planning on taking about 20 tapes. Got one 915, two 930's and two 945's. I'm still undecided if I have enough batteries. I have the standard battery charger and have just bought the Dual battery charger just incase one packs up. I really would be stuck then! I'm out there for 11 days.
I have today for the first time properly used the 100-400mm lens on the camera. More difficult than I thought it would be. I still have no extra support for it. I'll keep practicing using it but I must admit in Kenya it will probably have more time on my E03 than the XL1.

Gareth

[Mike Rupp]

For what it's worth, and posting rather late to this thread- I've used a 100-300 lens for three years on nature videos, and believe me, NO Bogen head will give you the ability to pan or tilt with the lens zoomed out. Don't waste your money- get a much more professional head like O'Conner's 2030 or smaller.I think 400mm is a bit much too, except when you have to get a still shot. Heat waves will be a major factor when the ground heats up- so much so that with 400mm the shot may be ruined. My 100-300 works well, but it takes some fine handling to get pans, and only with an expensive head- the "amateurish" stuff won't cut it with this focal length. Mike Rupp