Lurker/Newbie about to make a good decision? at DVinfo.net

Greg Bates · July 9th, 2003, 02:14 PM

Well I have been lurking on this site for awhile now and have been torn between the XL1s and the DVX. I am trying to be a practical person and not let my love of new technology get the best of me. I have always wanted an XL1, my brother used one on a project for school 4 years ago and I have lusted after that camera ever since. We plan to use it for music video work, and truthfully I am not to worried about "film" look because if I can put on a PC then I can make it happen. I dont think I can loose with the XL1s a.) I believe that support for the new camera will already be in place...why would Canon displace what is already a lucrative cottage industry surrounding the camera. B.) The DVX has a long way to go accessory wise and from this point on it will probably be quickly surpassed in its class by its competitors. Now maybe I am wrong but my experience in musical production/recording tells me that the leaders in a particular often remain the leaders because they continue to support particular legacy products and ecourage the development of peripheral accessories as Canon has done. Lastly I know that the tool is only as good as its carpenter, and of the DVX footage i've seen (barring loss from compression) none of it has been that hot to sway me especially after seeing Justin Lowe's video for King Black Acid (hot, hot, hot), using a GL1 and an Elura @ http://www.musicvideoinsider.com/mod...rticle&sid=206 So I guess this is more of a rant and feedback is welcome to my rant, but I figure i'd post it here as you guys have been pivotal in my research whether you know it or not. But it looks like XL1s here I come!

Jeff Donald · July 9th, 2003, 09:33 PM

Good luck on your decisions and video making. It sounds as if you've already made up your mind, or at least 99% of the way there. If it's any consolation either camera would do an admirable job, I'm sure. I've seen very impressive results from both cameras, as I'm sure you have. Thanks for posting and keep us informed on your progress and future projects.

Dylan Couper · July 10th, 2003, 12:08 AM

Nice!
It won't let you down.

Nathan Gifford · July 10th, 2003, 07:56 AM

Yeah, it does sound like you have made up your mind. Anyway, both cameras are excellent performers; you won't go wrong with either one.

No one knows precisely when the XL2 will be released. The $64K question is how much of the Canon accessories will work with the new system (the lenses are the biggest question). Considering Canon somewhat new marketing stategy I think they will do all they can to keep things compatible (except for standard res).

Tom Hardwick · July 10th, 2003, 12:13 PM

The biggest divider seems to be the side screen. Either you can live without it or you can't, and I for one can't.

tom.

Greg Bates · July 10th, 2003, 12:53 PM

Tom, I thought about the side screen and have looked at adding an optional TFT screen. I am also going to purchase the Firestore which will allow me to playback footage on the set. I've seen the video demo for it and i think it will be indispensable for a number of reasons.

Nathan I keep going over the accessories question in my head, and owning a recording studio I know how quickly the technology changes. I guess the upside to all of these "prosumer" (quotes because i've seen some awesome pro quality cinematography from people on this site no less) they are easily resellable (is that a word)

Nathan Gifford · July 10th, 2003, 05:12 PM

As far as accessories go Chris has an article on this site about the best ones to get first. That may be a help.

Tom the auxiliary screen can be a problem: it draws a lot of power. A number of XL-1 users are quite happy not to have this power horse on their filly. There are add on screens that make use of their own Canon batteries, keeping the load off the camera mains. I'll grant you this is not as convenient (and means spending more money) as having one like the GLs do, but it is still not a show stopper.

Tom Hardwick · July 11th, 2003, 12:29 AM

Granted the side-screen draws a lot of power Nathan but that's no excuse for its omission. Your power steering and air conditioning both cost at the gas station, yet you'd not be without them I'll wager. My guess is that the XL-2 feels the same way.

In my line of work (weddings, parties, events, shows) I've found that the people I approach are far less intimidated when you move towards them with a camera held at waist height while viewing a sidescreen and Hoodman. Closing in on someone with 3kg of glass and brass sticking out of your forehead evokes a natural reaction to freeze - or worse - rock backwards.

I also find that in such situations I'm not as aware of my surroundings if my eye is at a conventional viewfinder, even one as superb as the XL1's. In and amongst people and animals and equipment I like the fact that I can frame up and track while using a side screen as reference - I can be looking to left and right for more photo opportunities while actually capturing the subject right ahead of me.

tom.

Scott Brickert · July 16th, 2003, 11:22 PM

I've been looking at portable DVD players lately, some of which can take a composite video input. They have batteries that run 2-3 hours. has anyone tried using one as a monitor off an XL1/s?

Christopher Hughes · July 17th, 2003, 10:48 AM

"a conventional viewfinder, even one as superb as the XL1's."

I guess you have the B&W viewfinder for the XL1s, cos I would not rate the standard one on the XL1s as superb!!! Far from it...I find it of poor res and very hard to use for focusing....especially at mid range of zoom. Perhaps its just me, but everyone I have talked to seems to have the same complaint.

Otherwise its a very nice camera

Jacques Mersereau · July 17th, 2003, 05:29 PM

Me? I'd wait if I were you, or if I _had to buy_ *and wasn't shooting
wildlife*, I go with the DVX-100.

Christopher Hughes · July 17th, 2003, 06:41 PM

The post I referred to in the "quotes" previous has disappeared....weird! Its like my quote doesnt make any sense now.....lol

Jeff Donald · July 17th, 2003, 06:54 PM

The forum uses a form of compression to minimize download times etc. It may not have rendered your post correctly. This may happen from time to time.

Christopher Hughes · July 20th, 2003, 01:31 PM

Jeff,

Its not my post that disappeared....but the one that I was replying to. Someone saying as quoted:

"...a conventional viewfinder, even one as superb as the XL1's."

So it was his that disappeared not mine. As how could I reply to something that doesnt exist now...LOL Perhaps its gotten itself on the AREA 51 board, last on the list of the "Spotlight on DV Cameras" section I think...lol

July 9th, 2003, 02:14 PM	#1
Greg Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 186	Lurker/Newbie about to make a good decision? Well I have been lurking on this site for awhile now and have been torn between the XL1s and the DVX. I am trying to be a practical person and not let my love of new technology get the best of me. I have always wanted an XL1, my brother used one on a project for school 4 years ago and I have lusted after that camera ever since. We plan to use it for music video work, and truthfully I am not to worried about "film" look because if I can put on a PC then I can make it happen. I dont think I can loose with the XL1s a.) I believe that support for the new camera will already be in place...why would Canon displace what is already a lucrative cottage industry surrounding the camera. B.) The DVX has a long way to go accessory wise and from this point on it will probably be quickly surpassed in its class by its competitors. Now maybe I am wrong but my experience in musical production/recording tells me that the leaders in a particular often remain the leaders because they continue to support particular legacy products and ecourage the development of peripheral accessories as Canon has done. Lastly I know that the tool is only as good as its carpenter, and of the DVX footage i've seen (barring loss from compression) none of it has been that hot to sway me especially after seeing Justin Lowe's video for King Black Acid (hot, hot, hot), using a GL1 and an Elura @ http://www.musicvideoinsider.com/mod...rticle&sid=206 So I guess this is more of a rant and feedback is welcome to my rant, but I figure i'd post it here as you guys have been pivotal in my research whether you know it or not. But it looks like XL1s here I come!

July 9th, 2003, 09:33 PM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Good luck on your decisions and video making. It sounds as if you've already made up your mind, or at least 99% of the way there. If it's any consolation either camera would do an admirable job, I'm sure. I've seen very impressive results from both cameras, as I'm sure you have. Thanks for posting and keep us informed on your progress and future projects. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 10th, 2003, 12:08 AM	#3
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Nice! It won't let you down. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

July 10th, 2003, 07:56 AM	#4
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	Yeah, it does sound like you have made up your mind. Anyway, both cameras are excellent performers; you won't go wrong with either one. No one knows precisely when the XL2 will be released. The $64K question is how much of the Canon accessories will work with the new system (the lenses are the biggest question). Considering Canon somewhat new marketing stategy I think they will do all they can to keep things compatible (except for standard res). __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

July 10th, 2003, 05:12 PM	#7
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	As far as accessories go Chris has an article on this site about the best ones to get first. That may be a help. Tom the auxiliary screen can be a problem: it draws a lot of power. A number of XL-1 users are quite happy not to have this power horse on their filly. There are add on screens that make use of their own Canon batteries, keeping the load off the camera mains. I'll grant you this is not as convenient (and means spending more money) as having one like the GLs do, but it is still not a show stopper. __________________ Nathan Gifford Southern Cyclist Magazine & Productions For quick answers try our Search! To see me and Rob Lohman click here

July 10th, 2003, 12:13 PM	#5
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The biggest divider seems to be the side screen. Either you can live without it or you can't, and I for one can't. tom.

July 10th, 2003, 12:53 PM	#6
Greg Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 186	Tom, I thought about the side screen and have looked at adding an optional TFT screen. I am also going to purchase the Firestore which will allow me to playback footage on the set. I've seen the video demo for it and i think it will be indispensable for a number of reasons. Nathan I keep going over the accessories question in my head, and owning a recording studio I know how quickly the technology changes. I guess the upside to all of these "prosumer" (quotes because i've seen some awesome pro quality cinematography from people on this site no less) they are easily resellable (is that a word)

July 11th, 2003, 12:29 AM	#8
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Granted the side-screen draws a lot of power Nathan but that's no excuse for its omission. Your power steering and air conditioning both cost at the gas station, yet you'd not be without them I'll wager. My guess is that the XL-2 feels the same way. In my line of work (weddings, parties, events, shows) I've found that the people I approach are far less intimidated when you move towards them with a camera held at waist height while viewing a sidescreen and Hoodman. Closing in on someone with 3kg of glass and brass sticking out of your forehead evokes a natural reaction to freeze - or worse - rock backwards. I also find that in such situations I'm not as aware of my surroundings if my eye is at a conventional viewfinder, even one as superb as the XL1's. In and amongst people and animals and equipment I like the fact that I can frame up and track while using a side screen as reference - I can be looking to left and right for more photo opportunities while actually capturing the subject right ahead of me. tom.

July 16th, 2003, 11:22 PM	#9
Scott Brickert Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Crested Butte, CO Posts: 576	I've been looking at portable DVD players lately, some of which can take a composite video input. They have batteries that run 2-3 hours. has anyone tried using one as a monitor off an XL1/s?

July 17th, 2003, 10:48 AM	#10
Christopher Hughes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sunderland, England (y Merida, Mexico) Posts: 269	"a conventional viewfinder, even one as superb as the XL1's." I guess you have the B&W viewfinder for the XL1s, cos I would not rate the standard one on the XL1s as superb!!! Far from it...I find it of poor res and very hard to use for focusing....especially at mid range of zoom. Perhaps its just me, but everyone I have talked to seems to have the same complaint. Otherwise its a very nice camera

July 17th, 2003, 05:29 PM	#11
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Me? I'd wait if I were you, or if I _had to buy_ and wasn't shooting wildlife, I go with the DVX-100. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

July 17th, 2003, 06:41 PM	#12
Christopher Hughes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sunderland, England (y Merida, Mexico) Posts: 269	The post I referred to in the "quotes" previous has disappeared....weird! Its like my quote doesnt make any sense now.....lol

July 17th, 2003, 06:54 PM	#13
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The forum uses a form of compression to minimize download times etc. It may not have rendered your post correctly. This may happen from time to time. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 20th, 2003, 01:31 PM	#14
Christopher Hughes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sunderland, England (y Merida, Mexico) Posts: 269	Jeff, Its not my post that disappeared....but the one that I was replying to. Someone saying as quoted: "...a conventional viewfinder, even one as superb as the XL1's." So it was his that disappeared not mine. As how could I reply to something that doesnt exist now...LOL Perhaps its gotten itself on the AREA 51 board, last on the list of the "Spotlight on DV Cameras" section I think...lol