Deeper Shadows. at DVinfo.net

Eduardo Mayen · February 27th, 2002, 11:30 PM

Im a cinematographer shooting a short in which shadows are very important. How to I achieve a deeper shadow without it getting milky or grainy.

Ken Tanaka · February 28th, 2002, 12:03 AM

Using an XL1 or XL1s shoot with your gain turned down to -3dB.

Nori Wentworth · February 28th, 2002, 12:12 AM

I agree with Ken, and also if you have control of the lighting try over-lighting the "light areas" then compensate with with your iris.

John Klein · February 28th, 2002, 12:46 AM

If using the 1S, the setup level is what's needed. But...

The Canon already shoots a deeper black than NTSC likes to broadcast. I believe the IRE is about 5 and the NTSC level is 7.5. So I don't think you even need to make the adjustment. While 5 isn't 100 black, for most purposes - it is.

More likely solution is making sure that the gain is on manual and set as low as possible. That should keep the blacks, black. Next is to light and expose to get the normally lit area lit well enough to keep it contrasty.

BTW, I shoot a little on cable access and am going to try bumping my setup level up one notch to see if it brings that black level up a little (and will also decrease contrast a bit) more toward 7.5.

Bill Ravens · February 28th, 2002, 08:06 AM

On tests with my own XL1s, the factory "nominal" setting proved to be 7.5 IRE. Obviously, settings below that will dip into no man's land. As you noted, the NTSC broadcast standard is no lower than 7.5 IRE. I liked your suggestion of overfilling the light areas to underexpose the blacks. Did I understand you correctly?

February 27th, 2002, 11:30 PM	#1
Eduardo Mayen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: LAs Vegas Posts: 32	Deeper Shadows. Im a cinematographer shooting a short in which shadows are very important. How to I achieve a deeper shadow without it getting milky or grainy. __________________ Eduardo

February 28th, 2002, 12:03 AM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Using an XL1 or XL1s shoot with your gain turned down to -3dB. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 28th, 2002, 12:46 AM	#4
John Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 182	If using the 1S, the setup level is what's needed. But... The Canon already shoots a deeper black than NTSC likes to broadcast. I believe the IRE is about 5 and the NTSC level is 7.5. So I don't think you even need to make the adjustment. While 5 isn't 100 black, for most purposes - it is. More likely solution is making sure that the gain is on manual and set as low as possible. That should keep the blacks, black. Next is to light and expose to get the normally lit area lit well enough to keep it contrasty. BTW, I shoot a little on cable access and am going to try bumping my setup level up one notch to see if it brings that black level up a little (and will also decrease contrast a bit) more toward 7.5. __________________ < >< . . . . . < >< . . . . . < ><

February 28th, 2002, 12:12 AM	#3
Nori Wentworth Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada Posts: 217	I agree with Ken, and also if you have control of the lighting try over-lighting the "light areas" then compensate with with your iris.

February 28th, 2002, 08:06 AM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	On tests with my own XL1s, the factory "nominal" setting proved to be 7.5 IRE. Obviously, settings below that will dip into no man's land. As you noted, the NTSC broadcast standard is no lower than 7.5 IRE. I liked your suggestion of overfilling the light areas to underexpose the blacks. Did I understand you correctly?