editing / playback decks yet again at DVinfo.net

Steve Showalter · April 24th, 2007, 10:31 AM

I am ready to purchase a canon XL H1 and have learned about some issues with the eidting deck. We currently use sony eidting decks for a GL1 and XL1 and have had no problems.
I am being told by BH who I do trust and Canon I need to use one of their lower end HD cameras such as the HV 10.

Any adivce or experience with this situation would be greatly appreciated.
Steve

Ken Diewert · April 24th, 2007, 10:59 AM

I think you're in the wrong place Steve (don't worry someone will move you), but yes lots of people use the HV10 for a deck. It supports all frame rates.

Steve Showalter · April 24th, 2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Diewert

I think you're in the wrong place Steve (don't worry someone will move you), but yes lots of people use the HV10 for a deck. It supports all frame rates.

Should I open this elsewhere? thanks for any help.
Steve

Pete Bauer · April 24th, 2007, 02:47 PM

Hi Steve and welcome to DVinfo. Moved this thread over to the XL H1 forum.

If you peruse this and the XH A1/G1 forum, you'll find several existing threads on this topic. The quick summary of those as I understand it (I don't use a separate deck) is that for 60i, you can use a standard deck such as Sony's. Canon HDV F-Modes are progressive and won't be read by a standard 60i deck, so you need to play F-Mode in HDV back on a Canon HDV camera. Here's the current NTSC list:
XL H1 = plays and records 24F and 30F
XH A1 = same
XH G1 = same
HV 20 = records and plays back 24F, plays back 30F
HV 10 = does not record F Mode, plays back 24F and 30F

If you put out component or SDI on an XL or XH, it will go out of the camera at 60i (2:3 pulldown) and AFAIK, you should be able to use a standard 60i deck with the right connections.

Steve Showalter · April 24th, 2007, 03:08 PM

thanks for putting me in the right place. I have found canon is starting to test some editing decks and 2 sonys will work.
thanks

Daniel Epstein · April 24th, 2007, 04:43 PM

Which two Sony's will work? Last time I checked Sony HDV decks did not playback Canon HDV 30F and 24F recorded material but did play back Canon 60i recorded HDV

Steve Showalter · April 25th, 2007, 07:21 AM

You are correct it will not play back in 24, they said 30 would. that is the dilema. the best recomendation is to get the HV 10, sorry still talking out loud. I am weighing the XL H1 vs the sony XR V1, any opinions?
My concern is the editing deck issues and comaptability with final cut.
thanks

Steve Rosen · April 25th, 2007, 09:21 AM

Steve: There is no issue at all.. I've been using the H1 daily for a year and 4 months - Ive never even turned the switch to SD - and editing native HDV in FCP with a Black Magic card (not needed unless you want an external monitor). Two docs have already been broadcast, another one this coming month - although they're all 60i -

but I've shot lots of 24f and...

FCP handles 24f without incident, in a true 24 frame timeline.. if you want to output it to 60i, you can copy your finished 24p edit and then paste it in a 60i timeline, render and print to tape on any machine, even a Sony.

And get the HV20 as a feeder, because it will also better serve as a backup camera. (or consider an FS-C).

The two cameras you mention (XL H1 vs the sony XR V1) are really apples and oranges.. I'd go for the apples...

Nick Hiltgen · April 25th, 2007, 09:13 PM

I think there's a hv-10 for sale in the classifieds section of this site right now, if there isn't it can probably be bought on the cheap now that the hv-20 has been released.

Steve Showalter · April 26th, 2007, 06:12 AM

thanks, that is all encouraging
Steve

Steve Rutherford · April 26th, 2007, 10:46 AM

Just saw the thread and needed to add a few questions because we're about to get into the HDV arena too... Our biggest concern has been centered around which deck makes the most sense? We will be setting up a couple of HDV edit suites but need decks to make it work that same as our SD/DV suite.

Have any of you used or do you have info on the Sony HVR-1500 or HVR-M25 in terms of capabilities and limitations? And what about the new Focus Enhancements FS-C made for the XL-H1,, looks go on paper, any users? Also, from some responses sounds as if a deck isn't really needed (or is it?) and it also sounds as if there really isn't a deck made to handle ALL the capabilities of the H1,,, any truth to that?

We like the breakdown from Pete Bauer... anyone have a similar breakdown on decks?

Thanks Guys...
Steve Rutherford

Steve Showalter · April 26th, 2007, 10:52 AM

what I have been told from BH and Canon is a few decks have been "tested and work" the HVR-M25 I belive is one of the ones tested,but 24 fps is not working with it. I am being told 30 and 60 will.
Most are recommending the HV 10 or newer HV20 shich is a hdv camera. BH says that is what the Canon reps are using when they demo the XL H1

Steve Showalter · April 26th, 2007, 10:55 AM

I have also heard the canon veiw finder is brighter than the footage may appear on edit, one person said by 2 f stops (he stil loves the camera) it has been reommended to use something like a marshall external monitor.

Dan Keaton · April 26th, 2007, 03:52 PM

Dear Steve,

When your purchase your XL H1, just adjust the monitor (calibrate it).

This is easy and does not take much time, and is a very important step if you are ever going to use the camera without it being connected to a field or production monitor.

This should take less than one hour.

Steve Showalter · April 26th, 2007, 06:58 PM

Thanks, do you know whereI can get info on this process? you are refering to the eyepiece "monitor", correct?
thanks again

April 24th, 2007, 10:31 AM	#1
Steve Showalter New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Grasonville, MD Posts: 10	editing / playback decks yet again I am ready to purchase a canon XL H1 and have learned about some issues with the eidting deck. We currently use sony eidting decks for a GL1 and XL1 and have had no problems. I am being told by BH who I do trust and Canon I need to use one of their lower end HD cameras such as the HV 10. Any adivce or experience with this situation would be greatly appreciated. Steve

April 24th, 2007, 10:59 AM	#2
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	I think you're in the wrong place Steve (don't worry someone will move you), but yes lots of people use the HV10 for a deck. It supports all frame rates. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

April 24th, 2007, 02:47 PM	#4
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Hi Steve and welcome to DVinfo. Moved this thread over to the XL H1 forum. If you peruse this and the XH A1/G1 forum, you'll find several existing threads on this topic. The quick summary of those as I understand it (I don't use a separate deck) is that for 60i, you can use a standard deck such as Sony's. Canon HDV F-Modes are progressive and won't be read by a standard 60i deck, so you need to play F-Mode in HDV back on a Canon HDV camera. Here's the current NTSC list: XL H1 = plays and records 24F and 30F XH A1 = same XH G1 = same HV 20 = records and plays back 24F, plays back 30F HV 10 = does not record F Mode, plays back 24F and 30F If you put out component or SDI on an XL or XH, it will go out of the camera at 60i (2:3 pulldown) and AFAIK, you should be able to use a standard 60i deck with the right connections. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 25th, 2007, 09:13 PM	#9
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	I think there's a hv-10 for sale in the classifieds section of this site right now, if there isn't it can probably be bought on the cheap now that the hv-20 has been released. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome... Last edited by Nick Hiltgen; April 25th, 2007 at 10:14 PM.

April 26th, 2007, 10:46 AM	#11
Steve Rutherford Tourist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 3	Options Just saw the thread and needed to add a few questions because we're about to get into the HDV arena too... Our biggest concern has been centered around which deck makes the most sense? We will be setting up a couple of HDV edit suites but need decks to make it work that same as our SD/DV suite. Have any of you used or do you have info on the Sony HVR-1500 or HVR-M25 in terms of capabilities and limitations? And what about the new Focus Enhancements FS-C made for the XL-H1,, looks go on paper, any users? Also, from some responses sounds as if a deck isn't really needed (or is it?) and it also sounds as if there really isn't a deck made to handle ALL the capabilities of the H1,,, any truth to that? We like the breakdown from Pete Bauer... anyone have a similar breakdown on decks? Thanks Guys... Steve Rutherford

April 24th, 2007, 03:08 PM	#5
Steve Showalter New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Grasonville, MD Posts: 10	thanks for putting me in the right place. I have found canon is starting to test some editing decks and 2 sonys will work. thanks

April 24th, 2007, 04:43 PM	#6
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Which two Sony's will work? Last time I checked Sony HDV decks did not playback Canon HDV 30F and 24F recorded material but did play back Canon 60i recorded HDV

April 25th, 2007, 07:21 AM	#7
Steve Showalter New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Grasonville, MD Posts: 10	You are correct it will not play back in 24, they said 30 would. that is the dilema. the best recomendation is to get the HV 10, sorry still talking out loud. I am weighing the XL H1 vs the sony XR V1, any opinions? My concern is the editing deck issues and comaptability with final cut. thanks

April 25th, 2007, 09:21 AM	#8
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Steve: There is no issue at all.. I've been using the H1 daily for a year and 4 months - Ive never even turned the switch to SD - and editing native HDV in FCP with a Black Magic card (not needed unless you want an external monitor). Two docs have already been broadcast, another one this coming month - although they're all 60i - but I've shot lots of 24f and... FCP handles 24f without incident, in a true 24 frame timeline.. if you want to output it to 60i, you can copy your finished 24p edit and then paste it in a 60i timeline, render and print to tape on any machine, even a Sony. And get the HV20 as a feeder, because it will also better serve as a backup camera. (or consider an FS-C). The two cameras you mention (XL H1 vs the sony XR V1) are really apples and oranges.. I'd go for the apples...

April 26th, 2007, 06:12 AM	#10
Steve Showalter New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Grasonville, MD Posts: 10	thanks, that is all encouraging Steve

April 26th, 2007, 10:52 AM	#12
Steve Showalter New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Grasonville, MD Posts: 10	what I have been told from BH and Canon is a few decks have been "tested and work" the HVR-M25 I belive is one of the ones tested,but 24 fps is not working with it. I am being told 30 and 60 will. Most are recommending the HV 10 or newer HV20 shich is a hdv camera. BH says that is what the Canon reps are using when they demo the XL H1

April 26th, 2007, 10:55 AM	#13
Steve Showalter New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Grasonville, MD Posts: 10	Xl H1 I have also heard the canon veiw finder is brighter than the footage may appear on edit, one person said by 2 f stops (he stil loves the camera) it has been reommended to use something like a marshall external monitor.

April 26th, 2007, 03:52 PM	#14
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Steve, When your purchase your XL H1, just adjust the monitor (calibrate it). This is easy and does not take much time, and is a very important step if you are ever going to use the camera without it being connected to a field or production monitor. This should take less than one hour. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

April 26th, 2007, 06:58 PM	#15
Steve Showalter New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Grasonville, MD Posts: 10	Thanks, do you know whereI can get info on this process? you are refering to the eyepiece "monitor", correct? thanks again