Improve the sound with another mic? at DVinfo.net

Johan Forssblad · April 14th, 2007, 04:13 AM

Hi,
I was interested to see if it was possible to improve the audio recording by putting another more expensive microphone on the XL H1 microphone holder.

The Swedish Pearl Microphone Laboratory was kind and handed me a Pearl MS8 48 V MS-stereo condenser microphone for trial purpose. (www.pearl.se)

It was just slightly thicker than the original mic so I clamped it and connected it to the XLR inputs.

Even if the microphone could give slightly better sound I noticed one important drawback: All sounds from camera handling, focus motor, zoom etc. was transferred much stronger to the audio channels. Perhaps 10 dB stronger. I guess the MS8 goes much further down in the low frequency spectrum while the standard mic has a limited bass response.

Anybody who have measured the original mic or seen any frequency diagram?

Nevertheless, I will keep the original mic so far. To be able to use a better mic, it needs better mechanical isolation, preferably by using it not mounted on the camcorder. Perhaps a better rubber isolator could improve the situation. Anybody who have tried? /Johan

Floris van Eck · April 14th, 2007, 08:33 AM

I am using a Rode NT-3 and Rode NTG-2 microphone with my Canon XL-H1 and they both work fine. You always have to be careful with the handling but especially with the NTG-2, you don't hear any camera noise. With the NT-3 you have to be more careful but this is just the way microphones are designed. One is a like \/ (NT3) and the other like || (NTG-2) so the NT3 picks up more environment noise. I shot a theatre play in a production hall and the NT-3 picked up the hiss of the heating system while the NTG-2 did not.

Peter Ralph · April 14th, 2007, 09:32 AM

What pick up pattern is the mic? Some stereo mics have a figure 8 - which is not so good for on cam mounting.

I use an me66 with the lightwave gizmo that moves the mic another inch or so from the camera. I use it more to keep the mic out of the frame, but it does help with camera noise. It has better on-axis gain than the stock mic - it's a very hot mic, and can often be used with mic attenuation switched on. This improves the signal to noise ratio. Minor annoyance is that you have to use an XLR Y connector in order to send the audio to both channels and maintain separate control.

there are many better mics - but for on-cam run and gun the me66 is a common choice.

Johan Forssblad · April 14th, 2007, 09:52 AM

Hi Peter,
The MS8 has got one cardioid for the M channel and one figure of eight listening left and right.
So I get the M (mono and front) signal on track 1 and the side signal on track 2.
In post I combine M+AxS to give me the left stereo channel sound and
M-AxS for the right channel.

By adjusting the constant A from 0 to 100 % it is possible to adjust the stereo width.

(Think the mic is similar to a Sennheiser MKH 418-S.)

Yes, maybe the figure of eight listens to much to the rear. However, I think it has more to do with the mechanical isolation. If I rub against the camcorder handle or anything else, it was clearly picked up. When I contacted the mic factory they said there is not much dampening between the mic capsules and the metal shell. Perhaps the original mic has a better dampening isolator inside.

I find the stock mic hot enough. And I like to have a stereo mic for ambience at the camcorder.

For serious work I will have a setup with boom mike (mono) and/or wireless COS-11 lavalier too. But I have not decided yet if I should sent all four sources to the camcorder or the opposite way, to an external recorder. Maybe I will stay flexible and use the external recorder for more demanding work.

Thank you for your idea. /Johan

April 14th, 2007, 04:13 AM	#1
Johan Forssblad Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vittsjö, SKÅNE, SWEDEN Posts: 266	Improve the sound with another mic? Hi, I was interested to see if it was possible to improve the audio recording by putting another more expensive microphone on the XL H1 microphone holder. The Swedish Pearl Microphone Laboratory was kind and handed me a Pearl MS8 48 V MS-stereo condenser microphone for trial purpose. (www.pearl.se) It was just slightly thicker than the original mic so I clamped it and connected it to the XLR inputs. Even if the microphone could give slightly better sound I noticed one important drawback: All sounds from camera handling, focus motor, zoom etc. was transferred much stronger to the audio channels. Perhaps 10 dB stronger. I guess the MS8 goes much further down in the low frequency spectrum while the standard mic has a limited bass response. Anybody who have measured the original mic or seen any frequency diagram? Nevertheless, I will keep the original mic so far. To be able to use a better mic, it needs better mechanical isolation, preferably by using it not mounted on the camcorder. Perhaps a better rubber isolator could improve the situation. Anybody who have tried? /Johan

April 14th, 2007, 08:33 AM	#2
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	I am using a Rode NT-3 and Rode NTG-2 microphone with my Canon XL-H1 and they both work fine. You always have to be careful with the handling but especially with the NTG-2, you don't hear any camera noise. With the NT-3 you have to be more careful but this is just the way microphones are designed. One is a like \/ (NT3) and the other like \|\| (NTG-2) so the NT3 picks up more environment noise. I shot a theatre play in a production hall and the NT-3 picked up the hiss of the heating system while the NTG-2 did not.

April 14th, 2007, 09:32 AM	#3
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	What pick up pattern is the mic? Some stereo mics have a figure 8 - which is not so good for on cam mounting. I use an me66 with the lightwave gizmo that moves the mic another inch or so from the camera. I use it more to keep the mic out of the frame, but it does help with camera noise. It has better on-axis gain than the stock mic - it's a very hot mic, and can often be used with mic attenuation switched on. This improves the signal to noise ratio. Minor annoyance is that you have to use an XLR Y connector in order to send the audio to both channels and maintain separate control. there are many better mics - but for on-cam run and gun the me66 is a common choice.

April 14th, 2007, 09:52 AM	#4
Johan Forssblad Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vittsjö, SKÅNE, SWEDEN Posts: 266	Hi Peter, The MS8 has got one cardioid for the M channel and one figure of eight listening left and right. So I get the M (mono and front) signal on track 1 and the side signal on track 2. In post I combine M+AxS to give me the left stereo channel sound and M-AxS for the right channel. By adjusting the constant A from 0 to 100 % it is possible to adjust the stereo width. (Think the mic is similar to a Sennheiser MKH 418-S.) Yes, maybe the figure of eight listens to much to the rear. However, I think it has more to do with the mechanical isolation. If I rub against the camcorder handle or anything else, it was clearly picked up. When I contacted the mic factory they said there is not much dampening between the mic capsules and the metal shell. Perhaps the original mic has a better dampening isolator inside. I find the stock mic hot enough. And I like to have a stereo mic for ambience at the camcorder. For serious work I will have a setup with boom mike (mono) and/or wireless COS-11 lavalier too. But I have not decided yet if I should sent all four sources to the camcorder or the opposite way, to an external recorder. Maybe I will stay flexible and use the external recorder for more demanding work. Thank you for your idea. /Johan