Steel Mill Footage at DVinfo.net

Kevin Martorana · March 16th, 2007, 12:25 PM

Ooops...I accidently posted this in the A1 Canon forum...
(Chris...you can kill that if you want...Sorry ! )

Guys....I have posted some stuff on our website...I'm hoping my web admin doesn't "bust" us due the the amount of bandwidth downloading...

Maybe Chris can give me access to upload these files.

Here's the deal...

this footage was shot both HDV and DVCProHD at the same time. We used the HD-SDI output and ran matching TC also.

There is a PDF file you can read about how we did this....Canon did a little article on us...so just download the file.

Also...all the shots in this QT are DVCPro100 except one. I know it will be tough to tell which in a compressed QT....but I'll tell you. The last shot is HDV.

We edited this on an Avid Adrenaline...ingesting the DVCProHD AND the HDV.

There are several scenes in this video (ultimately a 28 minute plant tour and a 4 minute tradeshow video) where we COULDN'T power or tether the DVCPro HD deck....so we just shot HDV. We thought it would be a good test.

It was...we can see the difference of course....but cutting the footage together matched nicely...and ultimately...downcoverting it to SD and playing on a DVD in letterbox mode....no one can see the difference.

I was seriously impressed with the white hot whites...and the grays and blacks and keeping the chroma colors. Contrast is not an issue with this camera.

Also...we used a N6 ND filter in the matte box for the pouring shots, in addition to the ND on the camera.

Camera was set 1080i and shooting 24f.

Enjoy.

Go here to download:

http://www.takeoneprod.com/canonxlh1

Ken Diewert · March 16th, 2007, 01:12 PM

Kevin,

Great Stuff! thanks for sharing it. You can practically feel the heat.

Unfortunately we lose alot on the QT compression but still...

Did you use the factory settings or a custom preset? That's a pretty tricky lighting situation but the ND's seemed to handle it well.

Kevin Martorana · March 16th, 2007, 03:18 PM

Thanks Ken...

Used the factory preset. The molten steel was 2900 degrees F. I actually thought the matte box might melt when the ladle passed by me...it was incredibly hot !

All in all...in that type of environment the camera did extremely well with dust, dirt and grime.

I can throw up a couple of uncompressed jpgs if anyone wants to see a hi-res shot.

Josh Keffer · March 17th, 2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Martorana

Thanks Ken...
I can throw up a couple of uncompressed jpgs if anyone wants to see a hi-res shot.

Please do!

Allow me to ask a dumb question here. I'm an XL1s user looking into getting an H1, so alot of this is new to me.

You said you did HDV and DVCProHD at the same time. Was the HDV recorded to MiniDV tape or through some other method?

Barlow Elton · March 17th, 2007, 03:34 PM

Kevin,

Great looking footage! I can only imagine that searing heat as the ladle passed by. I would've melted like a T-1000 ;)

It seems like the Sorenson compression didn't handle the flying sparks very well. Wish I could've encoded it for you because I know the SDI/DVCPRO HD version probably didn't have any artifacts whatsoever. Nonetheless, great stuff!

I look forward to reading the article on you. Were you part of the 'Watchmaker' production?

Barry Gregg · March 17th, 2007, 04:52 PM

Kevin;
Amazing looking footage, very nice. Could you post a .jpg of the HD-SDI footage and the HDV for comparison?
Thanks, Barry

Kevin Martorana · March 17th, 2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Keffer

Please do!

Allow me to ask a dumb question here. I'm an XL1s user looking into getting an H1, so alot of this is new to me.

You said you did HDV and DVCProHD at the same time. Was the HDV recorded to MiniDV tape or through some other method?

Josh...
Yes...we recorded HDV on Sony's HDV Master tapes (basically DV tape..but probably taken from the "middle of the roll" so the quality is better. The tape is Model: SO-PHDVM63DM
Mini cassette format. Recording time is 63 minutes in HDV or DV.

You can use regular DV tape...but I have preferred this HDV tape. So far...haven't seen one dropout. And if you get a dropout on HDV...it's not just a frame. It can be up to SECONDS in length due to the GOP recording. I've seen a dropout from our H1 on a regular DV tape that was missing 3 seconds of full information.

Kevin Martorana · March 17th, 2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barlow Elton

Kevin,

Great looking footage! I can only imagine that searing heat as the ladle passed by. I would've melted like a T-1000 ;)

It seems like the Sorenson compression didn't handle the flying sparks very well. Wish I could've encoded it for you because I know the SDI/DVCPRO HD version probably didn't have any artifacts whatsoever. Nonetheless, great stuff!

I look forward to reading the article on you. Were you part of the 'Watchmaker' production?

Thanks Barlow...

Yeah....I was looking for a quick way to compress for you folks to view it. If you view the QT in half size....artifacting isn't as obvious. I was also trying to keep the size down...since it's coming off our server.

I was not part of the Watchmaker production...but that was a great piece...and due to it...we purchased the camera. Blew us away at NAB 06.

Kevin Martorana · March 17th, 2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Gregg

Kevin;
Amazing looking footage, very nice. Could you post a .jpg of the HD-SDI footage and the HDV for comparison?
Thanks, Barry

I'll put some up Sunday and let everyone know so they can download them.

Kevin Martorana · March 18th, 2007, 01:57 PM

I've posted some HDV and HD grabs...
just go to the same address as before...

http://www.takeoneprod.com/canonxlh1

Josh Keffer · March 19th, 2007, 08:21 AM

Thanks for the info, Kevin. Much appreciated.

Barry Gregg · March 19th, 2007, 09:32 AM

Thanks for the frame grabs, Kevin. There is an amazingly small difference between the HD-SDI images and the HDV images. Zoomed into 400% the HD-SDI has about the same amount of breakup in the image as the HDV, but the HD-SDI looks more like grain and the HDV looks more like noise.

On a HD monitor what are your perceptions of the difference between the HD-SDI and the HDV footage?

Thanks!

Kevin Martorana · March 19th, 2007, 09:57 AM

On an HD monitor...you can see the difference between the 100mbps version and the 25mpbs of the HDV.

Also remember...the 100mpbs I grabbed is from our Avid Adrenaline...so the footage was captured with the Avid Codec...DNxHd at 220.

Bottom line....when looking at the HDV direct playback from the H1 and looking off tape from the DVCPro100....there is a difference. HOW MAJOR ? If I was to shoot that video again today...I would be totally confident to shoot just HDV and post it. For a corporate video.

If I was shooting a national spot...I'd record the 100mpbs...so the image quality would be the best possible...since the Avid is compressing at 220. But...that said...it's difficult to see the difference between the avid 220 and off-tape from the DVCPro 100. I don't know how they're doing that.....but it is clean and incredibly small in file size.

Hope this helps.

Daniel Patton · March 22nd, 2007, 11:28 PM

Kevin that is GREAT looking stuff. Very well shot.

The camera did a fantastic job with the color, look and feel. Speaking of color, how much CC did you end up doing on the Avid (or other)? I like that shot as 24P, very nice, was the shutter 1/48 or?

Kevin Martorana · March 23rd, 2007, 05:37 PM

Thanks Daniel.

NO CC was done at all. Shutter was at 1/48. We were balanced 56k...
We also used a 2k hmi for "fill" so we could have some definition on the ladle as it poured.

Otherwise....what you see is what you get !

March 16th, 2007, 12:25 PM	#1
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	Steel Mill Footage Ooops...I accidently posted this in the A1 Canon forum... (Chris...you can kill that if you want...Sorry ! ) Guys....I have posted some stuff on our website...I'm hoping my web admin doesn't "bust" us due the the amount of bandwidth downloading... Maybe Chris can give me access to upload these files. Here's the deal... this footage was shot both HDV and DVCProHD at the same time. We used the HD-SDI output and ran matching TC also. There is a PDF file you can read about how we did this....Canon did a little article on us...so just download the file. Also...all the shots in this QT are DVCPro100 except one. I know it will be tough to tell which in a compressed QT....but I'll tell you. The last shot is HDV. We edited this on an Avid Adrenaline...ingesting the DVCProHD AND the HDV. There are several scenes in this video (ultimately a 28 minute plant tour and a 4 minute tradeshow video) where we COULDN'T power or tether the DVCPro HD deck....so we just shot HDV. We thought it would be a good test. It was...we can see the difference of course....but cutting the footage together matched nicely...and ultimately...downcoverting it to SD and playing on a DVD in letterbox mode....no one can see the difference. I was seriously impressed with the white hot whites...and the grays and blacks and keeping the chroma colors. Contrast is not an issue with this camera. Also...we used a N6 ND filter in the matte box for the pouring shots, in addition to the ND on the camera. Camera was set 1080i and shooting 24f. Enjoy. Go here to download: http://www.takeoneprod.com/canonxlh1

March 16th, 2007, 01:12 PM	#2
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Kevin, Great Stuff! thanks for sharing it. You can practically feel the heat. Unfortunately we lose alot on the QT compression but still... Did you use the factory settings or a custom preset? That's a pretty tricky lighting situation but the ND's seemed to handle it well. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

March 17th, 2007, 04:52 PM	#6
Barry Gregg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 104	Kevin; Amazing looking footage, very nice. Could you post a .jpg of the HD-SDI footage and the HDV for comparison? Thanks, Barry __________________ Walk in the light. www.barrygregg.us

March 19th, 2007, 09:32 AM	#12
Barry Gregg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 104	Thanks for the frame grabs, Kevin. There is an amazingly small difference between the HD-SDI images and the HDV images. Zoomed into 400% the HD-SDI has about the same amount of breakup in the image as the HDV, but the HD-SDI looks more like grain and the HDV looks more like noise. On a HD monitor what are your perceptions of the difference between the HD-SDI and the HDV footage? Thanks! __________________ Walk in the light. www.barrygregg.us

March 22nd, 2007, 11:28 PM	#14
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	Kevin that is GREAT looking stuff. Very well shot. The camera did a fantastic job with the color, look and feel. Speaking of color, how much CC did you end up doing on the Avid (or other)? I like that shot as 24P, very nice, was the shutter 1/48 or? __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

March 16th, 2007, 03:18 PM	#3
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	Thanks Ken... Used the factory preset. The molten steel was 2900 degrees F. I actually thought the matte box might melt when the ladle passed by me...it was incredibly hot ! All in all...in that type of environment the camera did extremely well with dust, dirt and grime. I can throw up a couple of uncompressed jpgs if anyone wants to see a hi-res shot.

March 17th, 2007, 03:34 PM	#5
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Kevin, Great looking footage! I can only imagine that searing heat as the ladle passed by. I would've melted like a T-1000 ;) It seems like the Sorenson compression didn't handle the flying sparks very well. Wish I could've encoded it for you because I know the SDI/DVCPRO HD version probably didn't have any artifacts whatsoever. Nonetheless, great stuff! I look forward to reading the article on you. Were you part of the 'Watchmaker' production?

March 18th, 2007, 01:57 PM	#10
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	I've posted some HDV and HD grabs... just go to the same address as before... http://www.takeoneprod.com/canonxlh1

March 19th, 2007, 08:21 AM	#11
Josh Keffer Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 73	Thanks for the info, Kevin. Much appreciated.

March 19th, 2007, 09:57 AM	#13
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	On an HD monitor...you can see the difference between the 100mbps version and the 25mpbs of the HDV. Also remember...the 100mpbs I grabbed is from our Avid Adrenaline...so the footage was captured with the Avid Codec...DNxHd at 220. Bottom line....when looking at the HDV direct playback from the H1 and looking off tape from the DVCPro100....there is a difference. HOW MAJOR ? If I was to shoot that video again today...I would be totally confident to shoot just HDV and post it. For a corporate video. If I was shooting a national spot...I'd record the 100mpbs...so the image quality would be the best possible...since the Avid is compressing at 220. But...that said...it's difficult to see the difference between the avid 220 and off-tape from the DVCPro 100. I don't know how they're doing that.....but it is clean and incredibly small in file size. Hope this helps.

March 23rd, 2007, 05:37 PM	#15
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	Thanks Daniel. NO CC was done at all. Shutter was at 1/48. We were balanced 56k... We also used a 2k hmi for "fill" so we could have some definition on the ladle as it poured. Otherwise....what you see is what you get !