using HD-SDI thru this camera at DVinfo.net

Spike Spiegel · February 10th, 2007, 02:04 PM

I have the xena lhe (AJA) and premiere pro 2.0 and i'm trying to figure out how to connect the camera so I can get uncomp HD thru the sdi cable..

I plugged the bnc sdi cable to the HD-SDI slot in the camera, and sdi in to my breakout box.. I'm trying to use Machina, and setup the capture settings, its saying that video input not detected...

What else am i missing? Genlock? I've searched the manual and even the net for a how to, but havn' thad any luck.. Also, in the x lh1 settings, i've turned SDI to on... Any ideas?

Barlow Elton · February 10th, 2007, 04:15 PM

Have you made sure that the signal standard is 1080i and not 480i? You need to make sure that you have 1080i standard enabled, and be sure that the camera's mode select knob is set to HD. The camera will output 1080i, or if you are in F1 or F2, will output progressive within the 1080i stream. F2 (24F) will have pulldown frames within the signal.

Spike Spiegel · February 10th, 2007, 04:19 PM

Thanks for your response Barlow, can you give me a step by step procedure as i am still a bit confused! Its all set to HD spec, i'm just wondering what elseto do next as Aja's machina is not recognizing any video input.. thanks

Michael Fischler · February 12th, 2007, 05:28 PM

Barlow: I'm trying to do something similar here. I'm going to be shooting a feature and want to shoot HD-SDI 1080/24f going directly to tape (HDCAM) or onto a drive. When I hook up the H1 to FCP via the Kona 3 card - regardless of the switch setting (60i, 30f, 24f), the control panel for the Kona says the signal from the HD-SDI is 29.97.

According to Kona, their software/control panel tells it like it is - the signal is 29.97. According to Canon Tech Support, as long as I set the camera up to HD-SDI out and set the switch to 24f, I should get 23.98.

To make this more interesting, when I use EasySet-up in FCP and select Aja 1080/24p 10bit uncompressed, the clip is captured and the clip specs tell me the clip is 1080/24p. And it plays back just fine.

So my questions are: Does the H1 output a 1080/24f 10bit uncompressed signal? If so, how can I tell if the Kona control panel is wrong? If not, what exactly am I getting (29.97, 23.98, 24)? And will this work with the HDCAM deck?

I know I may be asking too much to hope for simple answers, but I do hope for the best...

Thanks in advance!

Vince Gaffney · February 12th, 2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Fischler

According to Canon Tech Support, as long as I set the camera up to HD-SDI out and set the switch to 24f, I should get 23.98.

The signal from the HD SDI port is 1080i 29.97. it is adding pull down to the 24f. the only place that 24f is output on the camera is the F/W.

if your kona card is capturing the 24, it's throwing out the pull down frames, which would be great. i have not tried that on mine yet.

vince

Barlow Elton · February 12th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Fischler

Barlow: I'm trying to do something similar here. I'm going to be shooting a feature and want to shoot HD-SDI 1080/24f going directly to tape (HDCAM) or onto a drive. When I hook up the H1 to FCP via the Kona 3 card - regardless of the switch setting (60i, 30f, 24f), the control panel for the Kona says the signal from the HD-SDI is 29.97.

This is because the signal is always 1080i. 24F is a progressive output, but carried within the 60i standard, which means that it must add standard 2:3 pulldown.

Quote:

According to Kona, their software/control panel tells it like it is - the signal is 29.97. According to Canon Tech Support, as long as I set the camera up to HD-SDI out and set the switch to 24f, I should get 23.98.

This is slight misinformation. You can extract the true 23.98 via Cinema Tools, but the camera is outputting 1080 60i HD standard at all times via HD-SDI.(when in HD mode)

Quote:

To make this more interesting, when I use EasySet-up in FCP and select Aja 1080/24p 10bit uncompressed, the clip is captured and the clip specs tell me the clip is 1080/24p. And it plays back just fine.

Are you sure it plays back just fine? I did this once and got a strange slight slowmo effect. What I realized after further testing is that the AJA was capturing the 29.97 and somehow conforming it to 23.98, so I was getting a slight slow motion effect. Do you get this too? If not, then the AJA recognizes the progressive material and disregards the pulldown frames, which would be great! I'll have to see if my Kona LH can do this now.

Check your 23.98 footage from this capture mode and see if you find any interlace artifacts or a subtle slow motion effect.

Quote:

So my questions are: Does the H1 output a 1080/24f 10bit uncompressed signal?

Sorta. There is true uncompressed 24p to be extracted, but technically it's only nominally 10bit. 2 bits are set to null, and in reality it's an uncompressed 8 bit 4:2:2 signal. But that is still very nice. HDV is great and a decent compromise, but the SDI is noticeably better.

Quote:

If so, how can I tell if the Kona control panel is wrong? If not, what exactly am I getting (29.97, 23.98, 24)? And will this work with the HDCAM deck?

You're getting 29.97 1080i, which can work with an HDCAM deck, but that's probably what it would be recorded as. You might consider the Wafian Digital Intermediate recorder as it has the capability to extract 24F to 24P 4:2:2 CineForm files, which are very high quality.

Spike Spiegel · February 12th, 2007, 11:39 PM

i finally got the solution, turns out, my breakout box was causing the problems, i captured directly to the card and voila, it works. Quick question, is it better to capture in 8bit 4:2:2 or 10bit @ 422, objective is to get the cleanest key for greescreening. Thanks!

John Richard · February 13th, 2007, 10:46 AM

"Sorta. There is true uncompressed 24p to be extracted, but technically it's only nominally 10bit. 2 bits are set to null, and in reality it's an uncompressed 8 bit 4:2:2 signal. But that is still very nice. HDV is great and a decent compromise, but the SDI is noticeably better."

FINALLY, an answer to my confusion on the 10 bit vs 8 bit SDI output of the H1" Thank you Elton Barlow.

Could you provide the source of this info?

Barlow Elton · February 14th, 2007, 01:28 PM

A Canon rep confirmed it. I believe CineForm can also vouch for this.

I've seen it in actual captures though. I couldn't tell a difference between 10 bit Sheer codec captures and 8 bit. Gradients like the sky at sunset and other things looked the same.

February 10th, 2007, 02:04 PM	#1
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	using HD-SDI thru this camera I have the xena lhe (AJA) and premiere pro 2.0 and i'm trying to figure out how to connect the camera so I can get uncomp HD thru the sdi cable.. I plugged the bnc sdi cable to the HD-SDI slot in the camera, and sdi in to my breakout box.. I'm trying to use Machina, and setup the capture settings, its saying that video input not detected... What else am i missing? Genlock? I've searched the manual and even the net for a how to, but havn' thad any luck.. Also, in the x lh1 settings, i've turned SDI to on... Any ideas?

February 10th, 2007, 04:15 PM	#2
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Have you made sure that the signal standard is 1080i and not 480i? You need to make sure that you have 1080i standard enabled, and be sure that the camera's mode select knob is set to HD. The camera will output 1080i, or if you are in F1 or F2, will output progressive within the 1080i stream. F2 (24F) will have pulldown frames within the signal.

February 10th, 2007, 04:19 PM	#3
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	Thanks for your response Barlow, can you give me a step by step procedure as i am still a bit confused! Its all set to HD spec, i'm just wondering what elseto do next as Aja's machina is not recognizing any video input.. thanks

February 12th, 2007, 05:28 PM	#4
Michael Fischler Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 30	Barlow: I'm trying to do something similar here. I'm going to be shooting a feature and want to shoot HD-SDI 1080/24f going directly to tape (HDCAM) or onto a drive. When I hook up the H1 to FCP via the Kona 3 card - regardless of the switch setting (60i, 30f, 24f), the control panel for the Kona says the signal from the HD-SDI is 29.97. According to Kona, their software/control panel tells it like it is - the signal is 29.97. According to Canon Tech Support, as long as I set the camera up to HD-SDI out and set the switch to 24f, I should get 23.98. To make this more interesting, when I use EasySet-up in FCP and select Aja 1080/24p 10bit uncompressed, the clip is captured and the clip specs tell me the clip is 1080/24p. And it plays back just fine. So my questions are: Does the H1 output a 1080/24f 10bit uncompressed signal? If so, how can I tell if the Kona control panel is wrong? If not, what exactly am I getting (29.97, 23.98, 24)? And will this work with the HDCAM deck? I know I may be asking too much to hope for simple answers, but I do hope for the best... Thanks in advance!

February 12th, 2007, 11:39 PM	#7
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	i finally got the solution, turns out, my breakout box was causing the problems, i captured directly to the card and voila, it works. Quick question, is it better to capture in 8bit 4:2:2 or 10bit @ 422, objective is to get the cleanest key for greescreening. Thanks!

February 13th, 2007, 10:46 AM	#8
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	"Sorta. There is true uncompressed 24p to be extracted, but technically it's only nominally 10bit. 2 bits are set to null, and in reality it's an uncompressed 8 bit 4:2:2 signal. But that is still very nice. HDV is great and a decent compromise, but the SDI is noticeably better." FINALLY, an answer to my confusion on the 10 bit vs 8 bit SDI output of the H1" Thank you Elton Barlow. Could you provide the source of this info?

February 14th, 2007, 01:28 PM	#9
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	A Canon rep confirmed it. I believe CineForm can also vouch for this. I've seen it in actual captures though. I couldn't tell a difference between 10 bit Sheer codec captures and 8 bit. Gradients like the sky at sunset and other things looked the same.