XL H1 and that "film look" at DVinfo.net

Benjamin Richardson · February 5th, 2007, 07:24 PM

So video responds to light using Red, Green, and Blue. Whereas film responds to light using Magenta, Cyan, Yellow, and the fourth for the intensity of the light. As i was re-reading the canon XL H1 mini-site i noticed this:

R gain: This is for adjusting the white balance (WB) of the images. When the cursor is moved in the [+] direction, WB shifts toward red; when moved in the [-] direction, it shifts toward cyan. The coloring is adjusted to suit the user's personal preference in a range of -9 to +9.

G gain: Also for adjusting the white balance (WB) of the images, when the cursor is moved in the [+] direction, WB shifts toward green; when moved in the [-] direction, it shifts toward magenta. The coloring is adjusted to suit the user's personal preference. Adjustment is possible in the -9 to +9 range.

B gain: For adjusting the white balance (WB) of the images. When the cursor is moved in the [+] direction, WB shifts toward blue; when it is moved in the [-] direction, it shifts toward yellow. The coloring is adjusted to suit the user's personal preference, in a range of -9 to +9.

-now wouldn't this help in making custom presets more resemble film? If each is moved to the -9 position, you would be mixing magenta, cyan, and yellow- like film does.

-or am i mistaken?

John Benton · February 5th, 2007, 10:22 PM

Interesting,
Ben I tried this just now. Given it is night and I am shooting indoors,
But it looks quite wonderful!
That leaning towards Magenta (and green) that the Canon has isn't there.
and the colors seem surprisingly balanced.
I pumped the general color Gain, and took down all the individuals to -9 (except fot the Blue, which I put at -8)

The darks are darker and so I had to make sure I wasn't Pressing Blacks/ Gamma was Normal
Very Very interesting.
Can't wait to test it in the daylight.
Thanks,
J

Nick Hiltgen · February 5th, 2007, 11:27 PM

Ben, excellent post. I'm excited to try it out.

Benjamin Richardson · February 6th, 2007, 12:44 AM

The results form this are quit beautiful. The darks do become darker, and I always increase the overall color gain, but even though the darks become darker my favorite setting is with cine 1, knee low, master pedestal all the way down, setup levels all the way down, sharpness at -3, color gain at +5, and Red, Green, and Blue color gain all at -9, and everything else at normal. This to my eye resembles some of Kodaks more modern film stocks (maybe 5218) with the deep rich blacks, that make the rest of the colors pop. This is all being used with decent lighting, though.

-excited to hear what everyone else thinks

Chris Hurd · February 6th, 2007, 01:37 AM

An excellent thread, and I hope this doesn't come across as being too silly, but here's some "extreme" examples of what you can do... maybe not all that useful unless you're remaking "Night of the Comet."

(No trashing that movie now, it's a sentimental favorite... one of my guilty pleasures!)

Greg Boston · February 6th, 2007, 09:54 AM

Hey Chris, I like the second frame. Very poppy and saturated like CSI:Miami.

Okay, no trashing CSI:Miami....it's one of my guilty pleasures!

-gb-

Floris van Eck · February 6th, 2007, 10:43 AM

Chris, which values did you use in the second image?

Steven Dempsey · February 6th, 2007, 11:25 AM

Sounds interesting. I won't be able to try this until the weekend. Benjamin or anyone else trying this, would you please post either some footage or some stills?

thanks

Steven

Josh Bass · February 6th, 2007, 11:32 AM

Anyone tried this with an XL2? taking down the individual color gains and raising the saturation to compensate?

Matthew Wauhkonen · February 6th, 2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Richardson

Whereas film responds to light using Magenta, Cyan, Yellow, and the fourth for the intensity of the light.

This isn't true; film has three layers of emulsion. Also, Magenta, Cyan, and Yellow are just opposites of Green, Green, Red, and Blue (I think...) when you're talking color not pigment.

The method may work, but it has nothing to do with film versus video.

Vince Gaffney · February 6th, 2007, 01:54 PM

Magenta Cyan and Yellow are secondary colors created by the combintaion of two of the primary colors Red Green and Blue when related to additive color.

vince

Benjamin Richardson · February 6th, 2007, 03:05 PM

-that is true, black (key) is used when you make your prints.

none the less, the technique is interesting. CMY is producing a different color palette than RGB.

Vince Gaffney · February 6th, 2007, 04:37 PM

benjamin,

i agree. that's the kind of thinking that compels us all to look at things differently.

vince

Steven Dempsey · February 6th, 2007, 04:40 PM

The proof is in the pudding as they say. If someone can post a shot using the negative and positive values, it would make for an interesting comparison.

Frankly, if it looks really good, I really don't care about the theory :)

Floris van Eck · February 6th, 2007, 05:00 PM

I am excited to see the result. Hibernating.

February 5th, 2007, 07:24 PM	#1
Benjamin Richardson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 143	XL H1 and that "film look" So video responds to light using Red, Green, and Blue. Whereas film responds to light using Magenta, Cyan, Yellow, and the fourth for the intensity of the light. As i was re-reading the canon XL H1 mini-site i noticed this: R gain: This is for adjusting the white balance (WB) of the images. When the cursor is moved in the [+] direction, WB shifts toward red; when moved in the [-] direction, it shifts toward cyan. The coloring is adjusted to suit the user's personal preference in a range of -9 to +9. G gain: Also for adjusting the white balance (WB) of the images, when the cursor is moved in the [+] direction, WB shifts toward green; when moved in the [-] direction, it shifts toward magenta. The coloring is adjusted to suit the user's personal preference. Adjustment is possible in the -9 to +9 range. B gain: For adjusting the white balance (WB) of the images. When the cursor is moved in the [+] direction, WB shifts toward blue; when it is moved in the [-] direction, it shifts toward yellow. The coloring is adjusted to suit the user's personal preference, in a range of -9 to +9. -now wouldn't this help in making custom presets more resemble film? If each is moved to the -9 position, you would be mixing magenta, cyan, and yellow- like film does. -or am i mistaken?

February 5th, 2007, 11:27 PM	#3
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Ben, excellent post. I'm excited to try it out. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

February 6th, 2007, 01:37 AM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	An excellent thread, and I hope this doesn't come across as being too silly, but here's some "extreme" examples of what you can do... maybe not all that useful unless you're remaking "Night of the Comet." (No trashing that movie now, it's a sentimental favorite... one of my guilty pleasures!) Attached Images __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 6th, 2007, 11:25 AM	#8
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	Sounds interesting. I won't be able to try this until the weekend. Benjamin or anyone else trying this, would you please post either some footage or some stills? thanks Steven __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

February 6th, 2007, 11:32 AM	#9
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Anyone tried this with an XL2? taking down the individual color gains and raising the saturation to compensate? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 5th, 2007, 10:22 PM	#2
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	Interesting, Ben I tried this just now. Given it is night and I am shooting indoors, But it looks quite wonderful! That leaning towards Magenta (and green) that the Canon has isn't there. and the colors seem surprisingly balanced. I pumped the general color Gain, and took down all the individuals to -9 (except fot the Blue, which I put at -8) The darks are darker and so I had to make sure I wasn't Pressing Blacks/ Gamma was Normal Very Very interesting. Can't wait to test it in the daylight. Thanks, J

February 6th, 2007, 12:44 AM	#4
Benjamin Richardson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 143	The results form this are quit beautiful. The darks do become darker, and I always increase the overall color gain, but even though the darks become darker my favorite setting is with cine 1, knee low, master pedestal all the way down, setup levels all the way down, sharpness at -3, color gain at +5, and Red, Green, and Blue color gain all at -9, and everything else at normal. This to my eye resembles some of Kodaks more modern film stocks (maybe 5218) with the deep rich blacks, that make the rest of the colors pop. This is all being used with decent lighting, though. -excited to hear what everyone else thinks

February 6th, 2007, 09:54 AM	#6
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Hey Chris, I like the second frame. Very poppy and saturated like CSI:Miami. Okay, no trashing CSI:Miami....it's one of my guilty pleasures! -gb-

February 6th, 2007, 10:43 AM	#7
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Chris, which values did you use in the second image?

February 6th, 2007, 01:54 PM	#11
Vince Gaffney Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 146	Magenta Cyan and Yellow are secondary colors created by the combintaion of two of the primary colors Red Green and Blue when related to additive color. vince

February 6th, 2007, 03:05 PM	#12
Benjamin Richardson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 143	-that is true, black (key) is used when you make your prints. none the less, the technique is interesting. CMY is producing a different color palette than RGB.

February 6th, 2007, 04:37 PM	#13
Vince Gaffney Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 146	benjamin, i agree. that's the kind of thinking that compels us all to look at things differently. vince

February 6th, 2007, 04:40 PM	#14
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	The proof is in the pudding as they say. If someone can post a shot using the negative and positive values, it would make for an interesting comparison. Frankly, if it looks really good, I really don't care about the theory :) __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

February 6th, 2007, 05:00 PM	#15
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	I am excited to see the result. Hibernating.