Any information on the next generation of Canon cameras? at DVinfo.net

Tyson Perkins · January 19th, 2007, 06:17 PM

Any information on the next generation of Canon cameras as yet? Ive been hearing murmurs concerning a model up from the H1?

Bruce S. Yarock · January 20th, 2007, 07:23 AM

I hope not. I haven't even paid for my H1 yet...
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com

Richard Alvarez · January 20th, 2007, 08:49 AM

A new 'generation' might be a while off. I can see some variants, a few more bells and whistles - broader lens selection maybe. Perhaps some aspects migrating 'down' into consumer models... but a 'generation' of develpments will wait for the next big technological breakthrough.

And I think that's all about storage. Getting UNCOMPRESSED HD down into manageable CHEAP storage is the next 'generation'. Some might argue it's here... but that's what forums are for. When someone comes up with a way t record uncompressed HD on a disc/chip/plate/saucer that will store an hour for about twenty five dollars... you'll see a "new generation" of cameras being developed around it.

The more I think about it, RED is the 'next generation' in HD. And you still have storage issues. But when RED hits the market mainstream, that MIGHT prompt some redevelopment on the part of the big companies... it will be exciting to see.

Jeremiah McLamb · January 20th, 2007, 09:46 AM

an XL-H1s maybe?

Marty Hudzik · January 20th, 2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce S. Yarock

I hope not. I haven't even paid for my H1 yet...
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com

I haven't paid for mine or yours completely either!

:)

Richard Alvarez · January 20th, 2007, 10:22 AM

Jeremiah,

I wouldn't see an 's' version of the XLH1 as a 'new' generation... the original topic of the post. Any slight modifications to the cam would constitute the 's' designation. (Or 'a' or 'b' or whatever)

An entirely 'new generation' would require a radical change in technology, format or aquisition medium. Like going from SD to HDV.

Andrew Davies · January 20th, 2007, 11:21 AM

Can't understand why Canon don't produce another slightly more expensive model in addition to the H1 which doesn't use HDV. They would seriously compete with the Sonys and Panasonics of this world.

Richard Alvarez · January 20th, 2007, 11:35 AM

I'm not following you Andrew. More expensive than what? The XL2? The move is on towards various forms of HD in the industry. Canon has already stated that the XL2 will be it's last SD model. Are you suggesting they make 1/3inch SD model? That wouldn't make much sense at this point. No, the next 'generation' will be defined by what RED is able to accomplish, and whoever designs an inexpensive storage solution for UNCOMPRESSED HD.

Chris Hurd · January 20th, 2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Davies

They would seriously compete with the Sonys and Panasonics of this world.

Keep in mind that Sony and Panasonic are two of Canon's best customers (Canon is one of the industry's primary suppliers of broadcast video lenses).

John DeLuca · January 20th, 2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Perkins

Any information on the next generation of Canon cameras as yet? Ive been hearing murmurs concerning a model up from the H1?

Im guessing Summer 08 :-) IMO it will probably be just a few tweeks here and there, nothing major.

Christopher Glaeser · January 20th, 2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

the next 'generation' will be defined by ... whoever designs an inexpensive storage solution for UNCOMPRESSED HD.

Why does anyone need UNCOMPRESSED HD? If you can not tolerate lossy compression artifacts, why not use lossless compression?

Best,
Christopher

Chris Hurd · January 20th, 2007, 10:27 PM

Agreed -- it's the Law of Diminishing Returns. Why would anyone need uncompressed, when a variety of very efficient high-quality lossless codecs already exist? The future isn't uncompressed HD, but the exact opposite... higher compression and lower bit rates.

The advantage of the raw uncompressed HD output over SDI available on the XL H1 (and XH A1) isn't the fact that it's uncompressed, but rather that it's so easily recordable by a variety of VTRs in various compressed formats... HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, etc.

Andrew Davies · January 21st, 2007, 05:29 AM

Richard, I was referring to another model more expensive than the H1 that doesn't have the limitations of HDV compression. It would have to have a form of compression comparable to that used by the more pro cameras that would allow for broadcast quality.

Lauri Kettunen · January 22nd, 2007, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Davies

more expensive than the H1 that doesn't have the limitations of HDV compression.

Well, didn't we only need a portable device which stored (and compressed) the HD-SDI signal on hard disk? For example, a (reasonably priced and)portable version of the Wafian recorder with Cineform codec or eqv. would immediately make the HDV tape recorder of the XL H1 unemployed. In my view the HD-SDI is one of the best features of the camera; There is a chance XL H1 remains a high quality camera for a good time.

The new SI concept is rather interesting in suggesting that maybe in the future there will be separated camera and storage units. If so, then it will be up to the user to to decide which HD bandwith is used to store the signal.

Steve Rosen · January 22nd, 2007, 10:30 AM

I think that it's possible, after the introduction of the Sony HVR-V1, that there may be an intermediate "s" version that utilizes chips capable of true 24p capture.. This would not require a major manufaturing retool, and would probably sell well even to people who already own an H1... But it could happen with the A1 first...

As for tapeless options, we're probably stuck with HDV for a while, even if it is recorded to a drive.. but it's not all that bad actually... Portable HD-SDI recording sollutions will probably come to the aftermarket before Canon builds them...

January 19th, 2007, 06:17 PM	#1
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	Any information on the next generation of Canon cameras? Any information on the next generation of Canon cameras as yet? Ive been hearing murmurs concerning a model up from the H1?

January 20th, 2007, 10:22 AM	#6
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Jeremiah, I wouldn't see an 's' version of the XLH1 as a 'new' generation... the original topic of the post. Any slight modifications to the cam would constitute the 's' designation. (Or 'a' or 'b' or whatever) An entirely 'new generation' would require a radical change in technology, format or aquisition medium. Like going from SD to HDV. Last edited by Richard Alvarez; January 20th, 2007 at 10:22 AM. Reason: spelling

January 20th, 2007, 10:27 PM	#12
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Agreed -- it's the Law of Diminishing Returns. Why would anyone need uncompressed, when a variety of very efficient high-quality lossless codecs already exist? The future isn't uncompressed HD, but the exact opposite... higher compression and lower bit rates. The advantage of the raw uncompressed HD output over SDI available on the XL H1 (and XH A1) isn't the fact that it's uncompressed, but rather that it's so easily recordable by a variety of VTRs in various compressed formats... HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, etc. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 20th, 2007, 07:23 AM	#2
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	I hope not. I haven't even paid for my H1 yet... Bruce S. yarock www.yarock.com

January 20th, 2007, 08:49 AM	#3
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	A new 'generation' might be a while off. I can see some variants, a few more bells and whistles - broader lens selection maybe. Perhaps some aspects migrating 'down' into consumer models... but a 'generation' of develpments will wait for the next big technological breakthrough. And I think that's all about storage. Getting UNCOMPRESSED HD down into manageable CHEAP storage is the next 'generation'. Some might argue it's here... but that's what forums are for. When someone comes up with a way t record uncompressed HD on a disc/chip/plate/saucer that will store an hour for about twenty five dollars... you'll see a "new generation" of cameras being developed around it. The more I think about it, RED is the 'next generation' in HD. And you still have storage issues. But when RED hits the market mainstream, that MIGHT prompt some redevelopment on the part of the big companies... it will be exciting to see.

January 20th, 2007, 09:46 AM	#4
Jeremiah McLamb Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 174	an XL-H1s maybe?

January 20th, 2007, 11:21 AM	#7
Andrew Davies Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wales Posts: 104	Can't understand why Canon don't produce another slightly more expensive model in addition to the H1 which doesn't use HDV. They would seriously compete with the Sonys and Panasonics of this world.

January 20th, 2007, 11:35 AM	#8
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I'm not following you Andrew. More expensive than what? The XL2? The move is on towards various forms of HD in the industry. Canon has already stated that the XL2 will be it's last SD model. Are you suggesting they make 1/3inch SD model? That wouldn't make much sense at this point. No, the next 'generation' will be defined by what RED is able to accomplish, and whoever designs an inexpensive storage solution for UNCOMPRESSED HD.

January 21st, 2007, 05:29 AM	#13
Andrew Davies Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wales Posts: 104	Richard, I was referring to another model more expensive than the H1 that doesn't have the limitations of HDV compression. It would have to have a form of compression comparable to that used by the more pro cameras that would allow for broadcast quality.

January 22nd, 2007, 10:30 AM	#15
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	I think that it's possible, after the introduction of the Sony HVR-V1, that there may be an intermediate "s" version that utilizes chips capable of true 24p capture.. This would not require a major manufaturing retool, and would probably sell well even to people who already own an H1... But it could happen with the A1 first... As for tapeless options, we're probably stuck with HDV for a while, even if it is recorded to a drive.. but it's not all that bad actually... Portable HD-SDI recording sollutions will probably come to the aftermarket before Canon builds them...