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#76 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: McBride BC Canada
Posts: 100
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Brian,
Shouldn,t the final edited master be as good as the original footage if you firewire everthing back and forth? Right now I'm archiving wildlife footage shot with the XLH1 and I simply firewire my special shots from a Sony 25U deck back into my camera and save on new Sony digital masters and the quality looks exactly like the original footage. I'm sure I could go back and forth all day without generation loss with the same piece of footage. A good editing HDV system should be able to maintain quality as in DV but I can't say for sure as don't have one yet. The following is not aimed at you Brian. As far as quality is concerned I'm more than happy with the XLH1, whip pans, fast action, you name it looks good 99% of the time. I snowshoed for hours yesterday tracking a family of lynx and finally managed 30 seconds of footage of the mother, her 3 half grown youngsters I could not find. The point I'm trying to make is, if I was lugging a monster of a camera I wouln't of been able to get the footage I did. So this camera is the best for me, as year in year out this is my style of filming, rough going most of the time. I couln't care less for a little better quality on those full size cameras if they're too heavy to pack far. My camera with lens support, teleconverters and tripod weighs about 22 pounds and when at times you have to carry the mounted camera ready for action in deep snow, I often wish for less weight. At this time I don't know of a better camera than the XLH1 for wildlife filmmaking. Leon Lorenz www.wildlifevideos.ca |
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#77 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,149
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Quote:
It's certainly an area you should carefully think about and plan a workflow that maintains maximum quality. This technology is changing all the time, with new developments coming along every week and it's worth doing some research before making any decisions. |
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#78 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Paisley, Scotland UK
Posts: 99
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#79 | |
Wrangler
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eagle River, AK
Posts: 4,100
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Quote:
You are technically correct that you still get small amounts of generational loss with compressed formats. Maybe others run a lot of their footage through a half a dozen compressions, but I doubt if I ever have so far. I'll worry about it when I do (although since I'm using Cineform right now, they promise their wavelet codec will give me 15 generations with no visible degradation). And Cineform is just one solution, which I mention because I'm personally familiar with it. A given broadcaster may have a dogma about HDV; that's unfortunate and a bit hypocritical considering -- as pointed out by AJ -- how most providers bit-starve their broadcasts.
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#80 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,149
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The Cineform looks extremely impressive. It's one reason why I think the lower budget HD future lies with a wavelet compression format, rather than HDV.
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#81 | |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Incline Village, Nevada
Posts: 604
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1. Shoot in HDV/m2t 2. Edit in HDV/m2t 3. Color Correct/Composite/Green Screen/Filter-Effects in HDV/m2t 4. Final Render out to HDV/m2t NO - No -No You shoot in HDV/m2t THEN you convert to a flavor of HD intermediate codec (Cineform Aspect/Prospet, Canopus HQ) or the many other HD formats that develop independent single frames of high color space from the original HDV/m2t files. The long GOP is ended immediately. You edit in the intermediate HD codec. You deliver in the HD tape format (i.e. DVCProHD, HDCam,etc). THAT's the WORKFLOW to compare, not multiple .mt2 recompressions. |
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#82 | |
Trustee
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 1,771
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#83 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: McBride BC Canada
Posts: 100
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Brian,
Thanks for your feedback. I will keep my eyes peeled for a quality editing system when I'm close to completing the shooting of my first HD wildlife film. I've enjoyed using Edirol's Video Canvas DV-7 since 2002 and was their first Canadian customer, see an article about this on their website under stories. I understand they're working on an HD editing system right now and if it's anything like their DV-7 it will be awesome and should have firewire. On DV editing my final Digital Master is always 4th generation and 5th for Betacam SP for broadcast. I'm sure we should be able to edit HDV just like DV soon with new stuff coming out all the time, and get perfect quality. Leon Lorenz www.wildlifevideos.ca |
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#84 |
Wrangler
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,015
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i've been following this thread and this thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...l+h1+broadcast) and reading for hours, but i can't get my arms around the specifics of what folks are using for an HDV tape to broadcast workflow. is anyone here using FCP who can offer one? i'm hearing what *not* to do, but i'm a bit at a loss regarding what tools and workflow are actively being accepted. i'm going into a field environment where a small unobtrusive form factor is absolutely essential, so XD CAM is out. any uncompressed workflow seems out of the question in this environment. HDV seems the only option. but then what do i do with these tapes to convert them for broadcast? (having never done this before....). desperately searching for a workflow....
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#85 |
Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
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Depends on what the station's requirements are. You may be able to load your footage onto a hard drive and let them have it that way (as you would for a lab going to film), or you may have to dub it to Betacam SP, Digibeta, or whatever they might want.
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#86 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 146
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I personally just shot a series of commercials with the H1 in HDV. all the footage was captured as 10bit uncompressed NTSC and it's stunning. it will go from FCP to Fire as uncompressed quicktimes. it will be tweaked and output to d-beta for dubbing and shipped to the networks.
I do not see any visual evidence of compression. vince |
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#87 |
Major Player
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterey, California
Posts: 895
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I'm with Meryem... I know that there is a wealth of information on this subject, but it is so scattered and fragmented and opinionated that it's difficult to get a handle on exactly what is the best workflow - and how best technically to implement that workflow. I've worked with FCP since version 1.0, but I am not the type of person that gets a kick out of loading software and/or learning new APs every few weeks - I just don't have the time...
I've made seven short (8 min to 30 min) documentaries and nine commercials in the last year with the H1, all of which have been edited native HDV in FCP and output to SD for broadcast (converted in the timeline) or DVD distribution (using Compressor) - with great success, I might add... But, I know (from what I've read here and elsewhere) that if I want to be maximizing the potential of shooting HDV I should be converting (AIC - DVPRO HD - whatever?) and editing in a different way... What I don't know is - how (specifically) do I go about doing that and what (specific) software besides FCP do I need to do it?.. |
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#88 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 146
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what (specific) software besides FCP do I need to do it?..[/QUOTE]
FCP has all you need as a software solution. You may want to get a Kona or Decklink card if you don't have one. That will allow you to capture your HDV component or SDI into FCP to any I-frame format. You may also need to look at your media storage depenending on the format you choose. Again, Walter Biscardi at the Cow is finishing for HD broadcast in Final Cut. He does have HDV as the original source in some cases. His workflow is proven. Vince |
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#89 |
Major Player
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterey, California
Posts: 895
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Thanks Vince - I do as a matter of fact have a DeckLink card and 1.5t external SATA drives, so I'm good there.. So the drill is to capture via component rather than FW... Ok-a-y....
I just always worry about manipulating original files in any way - I'm from the "don't step on it if you don't have to" school of thought.. I'll check that link out... |
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#90 |
Wrangler
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,015
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thanks, vince, i'll check it out. "proven workflow" sounds good to me!....i feel as if i've seen posted workflows for converting HDV to broadcast here at dvinfo, but at the time, i wasn't in the market, so if any of you link-wrangling wranglers can direct me that way, i'd love it. my searches are not coughing it up....
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