The XL H1s ? at DVinfo.net

Mark Job · September 28th, 2006, 01:04 AM

Hello XL H1 Shooters:

I searched the net, Canon's web site, and this forum for months to get as much information as possible to help in my decision to either purchase an XL H1 or the Panasonic HVX 200. This forum has been the best place to learn from owner/shooters about the actual performance of the XL H1. I almost purchased the HVX 200 until I read a review of a test conducted for the American Society of Cinematographers where the XL H1 was used to shoot subjects and then output in HD 24f via the uncompressed SDI output to an uncompressed recorder. These shots were then output to 35 mm neg and released printed. The resulting projected screen film out tests astounded an assembled group of famous cinematographers and technitions. The article reported the XL H1 outperformed HD cameras multiple times the price !

I am a dyed in the wool film man. I have always hated the look of video-period. However, my cinematographer friends are raving about the XL H1 ! I am also a happy former Canon XL1s owner. I got a written quote from the authorized Canon reseller here in Montreal of $12,474.11 (tax in) CAD for the XL H1. I hear maybe I should wait because there is supposed to be an XL H1s update about to come out. Can anyone confirm if this is true ?

Perhaps it is time to consider digital acquisition for film out once again because the cost versus quality ratio has finally arrived at the point where it's reasonable. I am also driven by the economic imperitive that I want to shoot film for my directorial debut movie, but we just can't afford the extra expense of shooting film and hassels with dealing with the lab. Perhaps there are members in this forum who have seen or made film out tests with this camera who can comment ?

Kristian Indrehus · September 28th, 2006, 03:41 AM

Don't know of any XL-H1s yet, but these two babies are just around the corner.
http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/index.php
Same quality with fixed lens, and with or without SDI/TC out. If you go for the ultimate film-look and a Mini-35 with primes, (to obtain shallow depth of field) then of course you have to go with the XL-H1.

Mark Job · September 28th, 2006, 09:05 AM

Hi Kristian:
No, I think we're leaning toward the XL H1 because we absolutely do want to be able to change the glass. There is P+S Technique who have great movie lens adaptor for the XL H1. Folks often talk about relative film look and overall resolution between the HVX 200 vs XL H1 and other models, but if you can't change the lens, then one of the most important factors in determining resolution becomes fixed. Not good. Some folks here have discussed using the XL adapter and putting still camera lenses on the XL H1. This would be a dramatically right direction to head in (As long as you don't need to zoom).

Also, because of eventual delivery of images on 35 mm theater releae print, the SDI uncompressed out option is also quite interesting. HDV out to film tests have also been done and they are supposed to look surprisingly good with this camera despite the really big compression factor of the format. I hope to be able to get a print of the film out tests here as we would like to evaluate these tests for ourselves on a really big screen. I'm hoping the XL H1 could be a cost effective alternative to expensive film shooting.

R.W. Swanson · September 28th, 2006, 09:58 AM

I think there will be a revision to the XL H1, but not too soon. Considering the XH GL series can out perform the XL H1 with having Timecode and Audio through HD-SDI out and cost almost 40% less, it's just a matter of time until Canon's flagship camcorder can do the same. It'd be nice if all that required to obtain that upgrade was a firmware update, but I doubt it.

Also, it doesn't seem like this camera is taking off as much as the HVX, Z-1U, or the HD-100U, so it would seem crucial for Canon to introduce a price drop before anything else.

My prediction: price drop by October. XL H1s and a manual HD lens are introduced at NAB '07, available Q4.

Doug Bennett · September 28th, 2006, 12:34 PM

I purchased an XL1 when it first came out. I have since purchased 5 more canons and followed the rumor mills closely. I can say with 100% confidence that all of the speculation about future canon models has consistently been, without a single exception, completely wrong.

I was not referring to predictions like Mr Swanson's. They seem quite reasonable. I mean speculation about the arrival date and features of new models

Mark Job · September 28th, 2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Bennett

I purchased an XL1 when it first came out. I have since purchased 5 more canons and followed the rumor mills closely. I can say with 100% confidence that all of the speculation about future canon models has consistently been, without a single exception, completely wrong.

....Interesting to note. Thanks. The rumour mill around Montreal for this camera has it being upgraded by Christmas. I can remember how I was about to buy my XL1 when the rumours started about the XL1s coming and it was true. Well, I know my feature film is slated for an April 07 shoot, so if there is no XL H1s by then we will probably go with the XL H1.

John Richard · September 28th, 2006, 01:54 PM

Was wondering what became of the "Would you be willing to pay for an Audio/Timecode SDI Embedding Upgrade" poll and whether there was any word from Canon regarding this potential?

Doug Bennett · September 28th, 2006, 02:05 PM

well of course eventually all rumors come true. But I take my comment back. In Dirk Halstead's preview of the XLH1 he did claim knowledge of the arrival of the GL2 HD upgrade. He might be the guy to watch

Mark Job · September 28th, 2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Richard

Was wondering what became of the "Would you be willing to pay for an Audio/Timecode SDI Embedding Upgrade" poll and whether there was any word from Canon regarding this potential?

....You mean the uncompressed SDI doesn't include the timecode and audio signal ?!!! WHY ?!! Uh Oh ! Darn ! I have SD SDI in and out on my editing system and was hoping to perform a match back edit using HD image capture in camera, then output audio & video with timecode as downconverted SD stream out, then edit in SD with source code as VITC reference on time line, then generate CMX 3000 EDL and go with source tapes & floppy disc to on line facility (I don't have an HD editing system, but spent a large fortune on state of the art SD real time edit system) and conform everything. I then capture the HDV tapes as Cineon or the new DI (Digital Intermediate) format and output to 35 mm neg.

Pete Bauer · September 28th, 2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Bennett

well of course eventually all rumors come true. But I take my comment back. In Dirk Halstead's preview of the XLH1 he did claim knowledge of the arrival of the GL2 HD upgrade. He might be the guy to watch

Dirk is well thought of, so please don't take this is a slam...but even way back when he did that review, it was a foregone conclusion in the mind of anyone who cares that sooner or later Canon would release an HDV camera similar in form factor to the GL. It would have been notable only if he had predicted that Canon did NOT plan to make such a camera!

Nick Hiltgen · September 28th, 2006, 02:42 PM

Mark

Miranda makes an audio and timecode embedder (amx-800 $2000 list) that will output a clean and a timecode imprint signal evidently it will also output an sd sdi out as well don't know fi you can make one of the feeds sd and the other hd or not. it will embed the 4 channels of audio and the timecode all into the sdi stream. It does take 6 volts in so I imagine it can be powered by a battery system as well. If you're interested when the time roles around I may have one available as a rental.

Mark Job · September 28th, 2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen

Mark

Miranda makes an audio and timecode embedder (amx-800 $2000 list) that will output a clean and a timecode imprint signal evidently it will also output an sd sdi out as well don't know fi you can make one of the feeds sd and the other hd or not. it will embed the 4 channels of audio and the timecode all into the sdi stream. It does take 6 volts in so I imagine it can be powered by a battery system as well. If you're interested when the time roles around I may have one available as a rental.

...Thanks Nick for the heads up on that piece of equipment. As long as the enbedded time code is output in the blanking area and not as a window dub, then I would be interested. What city are you in Nick ?

Oh gosh is that ever embarrassing ! I failed to look up under your name where it already lists your City ! O.K. I really do need to get some sleep this month !

September 28th, 2006, 01:04 AM	#1
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	The XL H1s ? Hello XL H1 Shooters: I searched the net, Canon's web site, and this forum for months to get as much information as possible to help in my decision to either purchase an XL H1 or the Panasonic HVX 200. This forum has been the best place to learn from owner/shooters about the actual performance of the XL H1. I almost purchased the HVX 200 until I read a review of a test conducted for the American Society of Cinematographers where the XL H1 was used to shoot subjects and then output in HD 24f via the uncompressed SDI output to an uncompressed recorder. These shots were then output to 35 mm neg and released printed. The resulting projected screen film out tests astounded an assembled group of famous cinematographers and technitions. The article reported the XL H1 outperformed HD cameras multiple times the price ! I am a dyed in the wool film man. I have always hated the look of video-period. However, my cinematographer friends are raving about the XL H1 ! I am also a happy former Canon XL1s owner. I got a written quote from the authorized Canon reseller here in Montreal of $12,474.11 (tax in) CAD for the XL H1. I hear maybe I should wait because there is supposed to be an XL H1s update about to come out. Can anyone confirm if this is true ? Perhaps it is time to consider digital acquisition for film out once again because the cost versus quality ratio has finally arrived at the point where it's reasonable. I am also driven by the economic imperitive that I want to shoot film for my directorial debut movie, but we just can't afford the extra expense of shooting film and hassels with dealing with the lab. Perhaps there are members in this forum who have seen or made film out tests with this camera who can comment ?

September 28th, 2006, 09:05 AM	#3
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	XL H1s ? Hi Kristian: No, I think we're leaning toward the XL H1 because we absolutely do want to be able to change the glass. There is P+S Technique who have great movie lens adaptor for the XL H1. Folks often talk about relative film look and overall resolution between the HVX 200 vs XL H1 and other models, but if you can't change the lens, then one of the most important factors in determining resolution becomes fixed. Not good. Some folks here have discussed using the XL adapter and putting still camera lenses on the XL H1. This would be a dramatically right direction to head in (As long as you don't need to zoom). Also, because of eventual delivery of images on 35 mm theater releae print, the SDI uncompressed out option is also quite interesting. HDV out to film tests have also been done and they are supposed to look surprisingly good with this camera despite the really big compression factor of the format. I hope to be able to get a print of the film out tests here as we would like to evaluate these tests for ourselves on a really big screen. I'm hoping the XL H1 could be a cost effective alternative to expensive film shooting.

September 28th, 2006, 02:42 PM	#11
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Mark Miranda makes an audio and timecode embedder (amx-800 $2000 list) that will output a clean and a timecode imprint signal evidently it will also output an sd sdi out as well don't know fi you can make one of the feeds sd and the other hd or not. it will embed the 4 channels of audio and the timecode all into the sdi stream. It does take 6 volts in so I imagine it can be powered by a battery system as well. If you're interested when the time roles around I may have one available as a rental. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

September 28th, 2006, 03:41 AM	#2
Kristian Indrehus Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 123	Don't know of any XL-H1s yet, but these two babies are just around the corner. http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/index.php Same quality with fixed lens, and with or without SDI/TC out. If you go for the ultimate film-look and a Mini-35 with primes, (to obtain shallow depth of field) then of course you have to go with the XL-H1.

September 28th, 2006, 09:58 AM	#4
R.W. Swanson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: los angeles Posts: 38	I think there will be a revision to the XL H1, but not too soon. Considering the XH GL series can out perform the XL H1 with having Timecode and Audio through HD-SDI out and cost almost 40% less, it's just a matter of time until Canon's flagship camcorder can do the same. It'd be nice if all that required to obtain that upgrade was a firmware update, but I doubt it. Also, it doesn't seem like this camera is taking off as much as the HVX, Z-1U, or the HD-100U, so it would seem crucial for Canon to introduce a price drop before anything else. My prediction: price drop by October. XL H1s and a manual HD lens are introduced at NAB '07, available Q4.

September 28th, 2006, 12:34 PM	#5
Doug Bennett Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 260	I purchased an XL1 when it first came out. I have since purchased 5 more canons and followed the rumor mills closely. I can say with 100% confidence that all of the speculation about future canon models has consistently been, without a single exception, completely wrong. I was not referring to predictions like Mr Swanson's. They seem quite reasonable. I mean speculation about the arrival date and features of new models

September 28th, 2006, 01:54 PM	#7
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	Was wondering what became of the "Would you be willing to pay for an Audio/Timecode SDI Embedding Upgrade" poll and whether there was any word from Canon regarding this potential?

September 28th, 2006, 02:05 PM	#8
Doug Bennett Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 260	well of course eventually all rumors come true. But I take my comment back. In Dirk Halstead's preview of the XLH1 he did claim knowledge of the arrival of the GL2 HD upgrade. He might be the guy to watch