Which is better: 24F or Magic Bullet?

[Chris Hurd]

Are any of the Canon images 24F?

At the moment, I don't have time to dig up and consult my copy of the shot list. Suffice to say that we did a little bit of everything with all of these cameras including 24F on the Canon. We're currently working on the assembly of a set of DVD data discs which will include .m2t files that you can view on an HDTV. We haven't fixed a delivery date or a price yet, but it'll be soon and affordable.

Meanwhile you can download and view a variety of 24F HD video clips from our XL H1 Sample Clips forum.

[Barlow Elton]

How about this for 24F resolution? Right click and save. View in QT player at actual image size (1920x1080)

[David Ziegelheim]

Thanks, Barlow.

Do you have a 1080i version of the same image.

Chris, all of the stuff I saw on the clips had been reduced to a lower resolution.

What would be really nice is setting up an H1 and taking 1080i and 24F to tape, HD-SDI, and HD component out of the same image. And comparing them side by side.

[Chris Hurd]

At the Texas shootout we did this, recording 60i and 24F from the Canon XL H1 to tape and out SDI to a Mac capture station at the same time. Some cameras such as the JVC GY-HD100 do not have SDI so we captured their analog component output also while recording to tape. All of that will make it into the Texas HD Shootout data DVD set that I mentioned earlier in this thread. We'll make a pretty big announcement when it's available for sale.

[Barlow Elton]

Originally Posted by David Ziegelheim

Thanks, Barlow.

Do you have a 1080i version of the same image.

Here's a 1080i--Same shoot, different image:

[Ash Greyson]

In the real world, still pictures are not accurate to what the eye sees in motion video. Both the HVX and XLH TECHNICALLY have 540 lines of resolution by harsh analysis under a microscope. In reality, they look much sharper. Does 60i look sharper than 24F? YES, does it look dramatically sharper? Absolutely not... I would not use an external program to deinterlace, IMHO you would be losing a lot by not letting the camera do it.




ash =o)

[Barlow Elton]

Not to mention the fact that I've never seen 60i converted to 24p 100% flawlessly. There are usually some double frames and slight funkiness in every render no matter how short or long.

The theory is that 24F is a real-time smart deinterlace of 48i (interlace CCD's reclocked to 48HZ)--and the lack of any kind of deinterlace artifacts leads me to believe that something else might be going on. I think it's too sharp to simply be a field doubling, yet it shows no side-effects of deinterlacing.

Any alternate theories out there?

[Lauri Kettunen]

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

A very good (but slow) method such as DVFilm Maker can do a fairly good job at trying to make up the missing detail but it isn't perfect.

Yes, I second this. I've deinterlaced some DV footages with DVFilm and it works pretty well if the object has moved in one direction and not too much between the fields of a frame. But, for example, if there is a bird jumping from left to right and simultaneously moving its tail up and down, the output of DVFilm is quite far from perfect.

The techinical difficulty is, in 1/48 (or as in my case in 1/50) second a bird is able to move quite a lot. When there is any kind of back and forth motion between the fields while something else is moving in one direction, designing a deinterlacing algorithm is about next to impossible.

[David Ziegelheim]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

At the Texas shootout we did this, recording 60i and 24F from the Canon XL H1 to tape and out SDI to a Mac capture station at the same time. Some cameras such as the JVC GY-HD100 do not have SDI so we captured their analog component output also while recording to tape. All of that will make it into the Texas HD Shootout data DVD set that I mentioned earlier in this thread. We'll make a pretty big announcement when it's available for sale.

Did you do both HD-SDI and analog component from from the H1? A feature of the H1, G1, and HD250 is the availablity of HD-SDI. However, it seems to come with a $3k price tag. One question is: is the difference from analog worth $3k, or 75% more than the same camera/lens with just analog component out?

[Chris Hurd]

Output capture on the Texas HD Shootout was managed by Mike Curtis. If I recall correctly, I don't think we bothered with component output from the H1. David, if you find the $3K pricetag of SDI intimidating, then let me suggest that it is definitely not for you. SDI was put on this camera and on the XH G1 primarily to benefit small studios and production facilities that are already set up for SDI. The price difference is not just $3K, as you'll also need an SDI input on your NLE capture station plus all of the storage that uncompressed or low compressed video requires. What the difference between Serial Digital Interface and component analog is "worth," is a highly relative question that only you can answer. If the $3K difference in price concerns you, then by all means disregard it. Establish what your budget really is (for not only the camera but also its associated support, plus your editing system requirements) and work within that budget.

In other words... the cost to go SDI is not $3K but more like $5K or perhaps higher, because you've got to account for the extra cost on the capture side, not just the camera side. Plus all the extra drive space needed for video storage, which is an order of magnitude higher than what it would be for 25mbps HDV.

[David Ziegelheim]

The cost of acquisition is about the same. Current plan would be to use Cineform ProspectHD with the AJA Xena LHe card, which takes both HD-SDI and analog component.

As a hobbiest my budget is not that fixed. Somewhat surprisingly, the early reviews of the HVX200 seemed to show that that is DVCProHD 4:2:2, as part of the overall system, didn't give it a decisive edge over the H1 or HD100. With both the H1, G1, and HD250 providing a choice, the quality is the main determinent.

How HD-SDI compares to analog component compares to HDV on the same camera is probably a key factor in my purchase decision.

[Chris Hurd]

But there's no advantage to analog component capture on playback... the only advantage is if you're capturing live while shooting. You're going to lug a capture station around with the camera whenever you want to shoot video? You can't do it with a laptop either. Perhaps portability and computer power availability is not a concern in your specific situation?

And yet, camera ergonomics, form factor and handling will carry a much greater impact on the quality of your video than whatever output you choose to capture from. The right camera for you is the one which feels best in your hands... that alone is far, far more important than any differences in numbers or technical specifications. Try the cameras out for yourself, instead of counting pixels on a screen.

[David Ziegelheim]

Virtually never off the tripod. Rarely (never follow focus). The camera (to me) is all about image and to a (much) lesser extent sound. It seems that all of these cameras have similar audio recording, other than the HVX200.

Form factor is a little issue. An H1 or HD100 is more likely to get a request for a permit. With an A1 or HVX200 you could be a tourist. The A1/G1 comes either way. As does the the HD100.

The smaller size is easier to carry. However on the road the camera is way small compared to lights, C-stands, flags, etc.

[Chris Hurd]

Lugging around a capture station everywhere you go and finding power for it is an interesting way to shoot video. Best of luck to you.

[David Ziegelheim]

What do you use to power your lights? The tape is the alternative when the capture station isn't available.

As far as the capture station is concerned, the Antec LanBoy case will make a nice, compact unit. Designed to be carried (to LAN parties). Even comes with a carrying strap. 16.5" x 17.5" x 8.2"...not that much bigger than a camera bag.

Image from Newegg site