Here's your $900 playback deck 24F/ 30F Frame mode

Johan Forssblad · May 6th, 2006, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Chartier

..." tape is dead"...

Then I'm glad I got one of the last tape recorders..., the XL H1.

What is the alternative if you like to film in remote places, be able to travel reasonable light, have a rather safe and large storage for your footage and be able to capture many hours of high quality material during a journey?

TAPE is still the answer.

Chris Hurd · May 6th, 2006, 06:54 AM

I don't think you'll get any argument from Craig on that one. His business is supplying filmmakers, and it's grown quite a bit ever since film was declared dead!

Jeff Morrissette · May 6th, 2006, 06:18 PM

Film and tape will never be dead.

Film will still have it's place. Tape is still the best storage. Things may go optical one day but there is no way a hard drive will be the ideal backup or archive medium.

Plus the tapless workflow is still in it's infancy and I do not belive the big boys will be discarding tape or film any time soon. It's to pratical and reliable.

The tapeless workflow will just speed things up in certain areas of production.
Especially in post.

It's like when they said paper was dead. We still use it, just less and more efficiently.

Bruce S. Yarock · May 6th, 2006, 06:38 PM

After suffering another FS4 failure last night (on my FX1), I'm really greatfull for tape.
Bruce Yarock

Damien Wright · June 5th, 2006, 08:41 AM

Hi,
We are looking to upgrade from teh Canon XL1s to the Canon XL H1 cameras. I'm not too proficient with the camera terminology, but will certainly do my best explaining what we are attempting to do. (I may muck up some of the terms here...)

We are looking to purchase 3 Canon XL H1 cameras and shoot in a mode that looks similar to the Frame Mode option on the Canon XL1s. (We don't really need to shoot in 1048i.) We chose the XL H1 because we need to synch the cameras together using its Genlock capabilities and we like the reasonable size.

However, we've found that there isn't a deck compatible with the XL H1 natively and we haven't had any luck finding any other HDV camera that has Genlock capabilities.

So, my question is, do you all have any suggestions for a better HDV camera with Gen lock capabilities that will not give us so many deck compatability issues? Or better yet, do you know of a recommended deck to use to capture XL H1 footage?

Thanks.

Barlow Elton · June 5th, 2006, 10:24 AM

Recommended deck: The new Firestore's that retain HDV timecode.

Instead of spending money on an HDV deck, shoot straight to hard disk and use the tapes merely as a safety backup. You could possibly outfit all 3 cameras with hard disk units for a little more than the price of the Sony HDV deck.

As far as I know there are no dedicated VTR's that are compatible with the XLH1's 24F mode. This is a real problem if you plan to shoot with this mode.

Why worry about a deck at all when you could just plug in your hard drives and edit?

Another thing to consider: HDV doesn't work exactly like DV. There's no scrubbing/monitoring the timeline through firewire. This means you need an HD card like the Kona, Blackmagic Extreme or Xena to have full-time HD monitoring. I have the Kona and it works well.

Just download m2t's rather than capture from tape. You can capture from an H1 if you have to recapture from tape later on.

Chris Hurd · August 2nd, 2006, 07:23 AM

See http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/canon/hv10overview.php

Also supports four-channel audio playback.

Marty Hudzik · August 2nd, 2006, 07:54 AM

That looks great Chris! Any info on when it will be available? This could potentially be a good "B" camera for events too, where you would likely be shooting in 60i anyway. Any links to this on Canon's site or anything?

Chris Hurd · August 2nd, 2006, 07:58 AM

Oops, I left that part out... ships in September.

More info in our new Canon HV10 forum. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=139

Marty Hudzik · August 2nd, 2006, 09:10 AM

One cool feature that this has is the ability to convert your HD footage on the fly to letterboxed SD for viewing on a non HD TV. I personally find this a big plus because I often shoot out on the field and the only equipment to view the quick takes on ar 4x3 SD tvs.

JUst thought I'd point this out.

Dean Gough · August 2nd, 2006, 04:05 PM

Chris, you may have left out one thing from the potential H1 wish list at the end of the article (see below), true 24P (especially as Canon are signing up to it.)

While I'm dreaming, 422 recording to tape and Dual SDI out for those times when you want true 444 capture.

I have other dreams too but best not mentioned here ;^)

"Imagine a possible application of this CMOS sensor in the near future. What if Canon were to produce a successor to their flagship XL H1 with three of these CMOS chips at its core? Give it embedded audio and Time Code with uncompressed High Definition video in its SDI output jack, an XL-mount lens equipped with Instant AF, and custom function and display settings, and you'd have quite an HDV camcorder."

Marty Hudzik · August 2nd, 2006, 05:02 PM

Wait a minute? This thing doesn't have a professional jack pack? What a rip-off!!!!

:)

Matthew Nayman · August 3rd, 2006, 09:36 AM

Well, wont make much of a Deck without a Component or HDMI out... How am I supposed to use my HD monitor :O

;)

Marty Hudzik · August 3rd, 2006, 10:13 AM

Seriously....this thing has to have component out on it....right? At this price point enthusiasts with HDTV's are going to buy these and want to play it right on there HDTV from the camera. Canon has to have included this...even though I can't actually find documentation of it.......

Chris Hurd · August 3rd, 2006, 10:40 AM

Component out... see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....74&postcount=2

May 6th, 2006, 06:54 AM	#47
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	I don't think you'll get any argument from Craig on that one. His business is supplying filmmakers, and it's grown quite a bit ever since film was declared dead! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 5th, 2006, 08:41 AM	#50
Damien Wright Tourist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1	XK H1 Deck or HDV Camera Suggestions Hi, We are looking to upgrade from teh Canon XL1s to the Canon XL H1 cameras. I'm not too proficient with the camera terminology, but will certainly do my best explaining what we are attempting to do. (I may muck up some of the terms here...) We are looking to purchase 3 Canon XL H1 cameras and shoot in a mode that looks similar to the Frame Mode option on the Canon XL1s. (We don't really need to shoot in 1048i.) We chose the XL H1 because we need to synch the cameras together using its Genlock capabilities and we like the reasonable size. However, we've found that there isn't a deck compatible with the XL H1 natively and we haven't had any luck finding any other HDV camera that has Genlock capabilities. So, my question is, do you all have any suggestions for a better HDV camera with Gen lock capabilities that will not give us so many deck compatability issues? Or better yet, do you know of a recommended deck to use to capture XL H1 footage? Thanks.

August 2nd, 2006, 07:23 AM	#52
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Here's your $1300 playback deck for 24F/ 30F Frame mode See http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/canon/hv10overview.php Also supports four-channel audio playback. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 2nd, 2006, 07:58 AM	#54
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Oops, I left that part out... ships in September. More info in our new Canon HV10 forum. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=139 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 3rd, 2006, 10:40 AM	#60
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Component out... see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....74&postcount=2 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 6th, 2006, 06:18 PM	#48
Jeff Morrissette Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: venice, ca Posts: 83	Film and tape will never be dead. Film will still have it's place. Tape is still the best storage. Things may go optical one day but there is no way a hard drive will be the ideal backup or archive medium. Plus the tapless workflow is still in it's infancy and I do not belive the big boys will be discarding tape or film any time soon. It's to pratical and reliable. The tapeless workflow will just speed things up in certain areas of production. Especially in post. It's like when they said paper was dead. We still use it, just less and more efficiently.

May 6th, 2006, 06:38 PM	#49
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	After suffering another FS4 failure last night (on my FX1), I'm really greatfull for tape. Bruce Yarock

June 5th, 2006, 10:24 AM	#51
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Recommended deck: The new Firestore's that retain HDV timecode. Instead of spending money on an HDV deck, shoot straight to hard disk and use the tapes merely as a safety backup. You could possibly outfit all 3 cameras with hard disk units for a little more than the price of the Sony HDV deck. As far as I know there are no dedicated VTR's that are compatible with the XLH1's 24F mode. This is a real problem if you plan to shoot with this mode. Why worry about a deck at all when you could just plug in your hard drives and edit? Another thing to consider: HDV doesn't work exactly like DV. There's no scrubbing/monitoring the timeline through firewire. This means you need an HD card like the Kona, Blackmagic Extreme or Xena to have full-time HD monitoring. I have the Kona and it works well. Just download m2t's rather than capture from tape. You can capture from an H1 if you have to recapture from tape later on.

August 2nd, 2006, 07:54 AM	#53
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	That looks great Chris! Any info on when it will be available? This could potentially be a good "B" camera for events too, where you would likely be shooting in 60i anyway. Any links to this on Canon's site or anything?

August 2nd, 2006, 09:10 AM	#55
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	One cool feature that this has is the ability to convert your HD footage on the fly to letterboxed SD for viewing on a non HD TV. I personally find this a big plus because I often shoot out on the field and the only equipment to view the quick takes on ar 4x3 SD tvs. JUst thought I'd point this out.

August 2nd, 2006, 04:05 PM	#56
Dean Gough Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 51	Chris, you may have left out one thing from the potential H1 wish list at the end of the article (see below), true 24P (especially as Canon are signing up to it.) While I'm dreaming, 422 recording to tape and Dual SDI out for those times when you want true 444 capture. I have other dreams too but best not mentioned here ;^) "Imagine a possible application of this CMOS sensor in the near future. What if Canon were to produce a successor to their flagship XL H1 with three of these CMOS chips at its core? Give it embedded audio and Time Code with uncompressed High Definition video in its SDI output jack, an XL-mount lens equipped with Instant AF, and custom function and display settings, and you'd have quite an HDV camcorder."

August 2nd, 2006, 05:02 PM	#57
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Wait a minute? This thing doesn't have a professional jack pack? What a rip-off!!!! :)

August 3rd, 2006, 09:36 AM	#58
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Well, wont make much of a Deck without a Component or HDMI out... How am I supposed to use my HD monitor :O ;)

August 3rd, 2006, 10:13 AM	#59
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Seriously....this thing has to have component out on it....right? At this price point enthusiasts with HDTV's are going to buy these and want to play it right on there HDTV from the camera. Canon has to have included this...even though I can't actually find documentation of it.......