Canon XL-H1 Mini-site with Whitepapers at DVinfo.net

Chris Hurd · June 4th, 2006, 11:23 PM

Check it out:

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XLH1/index.shtml

Lots to explore! Web pages plus white papers covering Canon Optics, Image Controls, Inputs & Outputs, Frame Rates & Formats, CONSOLE Software, XL H1 Specifications, Accessories and more... an excellent online reference, direct from Canon USA. Dig in!

Kevin Wild · June 5th, 2006, 06:55 AM

Thanks for this. Now let's see a Mac version of Console, Canon!

KW

Dan Keaton · June 18th, 2006, 05:39 PM

Please forgive me if this has been posted before. If this was posted before, I missed the significance of the information.

The following is an informative mini-site dedicated to the XL-H1.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XLH1/index.shtml

The following link goes directly to the downloads section which has various whitepapers on the XL-H1. This area seems to have good information on how to use the settings of the camera. This goes far beyond the manual.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XL..._library.shtml

The following is an example of the detail of information provided in the whitepapers:

Master pedestal: This adjusts the bottom portion of the Gamma curve without affecting the white portion of the Gamma curve. When the cursor is moved in the [+] direction, the dark areas of the image become brighter, and the contrast is reduced. Conversely, when it is moved in the [–] direction, these areas become darker, and the contrast is increased. This is user-adjustable to suit the user’s personal preference. Adjustment is possible in the –9 to +9 range, only in Camera mode.

Chris Hurd · June 18th, 2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Please forgive me if this has been posted before.

Hi Dan,

As you can see, it certainly was posted before. You might have missed it because the earlier discussion was no longer on the first page of threads in this board's index.

I've merged your post with that earlier thread, and will put this into a "sticky" that appears at the top of the index page. Hope this helps!

Dan Keaton · June 18th, 2006, 06:04 PM

Thanks Chris.

I have just read all of the whitepapers. While a lot of the material is redundant, I thought they presented a lot of very useful information.

I especially liked the explanations of the "Setup", "Master Pedestal" and the color matrices.

Bill Pryor · October 14th, 2006, 02:14 PM

I just ran across this on that Canon site, about frame rates:
These Frame modes have the same look as progressive frame rates, but are not labeled "progressive" because they are created with an interlaced chip. The end result is exactly the same to the editing system (and to our eyes) as 30p and 24p, respectively.

Note: The actual frame rates are 59.94, 29.97 and 23.976 for 60i mode and 50 and 25 for 50i mode (optional).

So, Canon generates progressive frames from interlaced chips, and so does Sony with its upcoming V1 camera. Sony says they do it by chopping each frame into two fields that butt together into a single frame. I wonder if Canon does it in the same way, and if so, would Canon's 24F footage, perhaps, play back on Sony's HDV decks? Probably not, but it's just a thought. Has anybody ever discussed how Canon actually does it, just out of curiosity?

Pete Bauer · October 14th, 2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

Has anybody ever discussed how Canon actually does it, just out of curiosity?

Oh, yeah, Bill! Ad nauseum, actually. I think I read or heard somewhere a couple months ago that Canon was going to loosen up on the secrecy of the technique, but I haven't run into anything factual about it since. So for now it remains a proprietary trade secret and any continued speculation can be continued in the (too) many existing threads on the subject.

Deck compatibility has also been covered extensively and my understanding is that 60i will work in any HDV2 standard deck, but ONLY the Canon HV10 can play back the Canon F modes.

Bill Pryor · October 14th, 2006, 02:53 PM

I guess the fantasy of compatability will forever remain a fantasy...to play back JVC 24p footage you need a JVC deck, to play back Sony 24p footage you need a Sony deck and to play back Canon 24p footage, you need another Canon camera. Unless you shoot SD 24p. Maybe now that Sony is telling us how they get 24p from interlace chips, Canon will, as you say, loosen up the veil of secrecy. If it turns out to be the same thing, that would be interesting, wouldn't it. I wonder if anybody has actually tried to play back a Canon 24F tape in a Sony HDV tape....

Chris Hurd · October 14th, 2006, 07:20 PM

Sorry Bill, yes it has been tried, and no the two modes are definitely not compatible. Canon and Sony each use different methods for 24fps; and no Sony HDV deck will play back Canon's Frame mode. This was probably the primary compelling reason why Canon put Frame mode playback capability into their HV10 consumer HDV camcorder, so that there would be *something* available to use as a deck for video recorded in Canon's Frame mode.

With regard to how Frame mode works, Steve Mullen has attempted to suss it out at this link: http://digitalcontentproducer.com/hd...005/index.html

Bill Pryor · October 14th, 2006, 09:41 PM

Interesting article, not that I understand it. From what I read, I'm assuming that in 24F mode there may be a slight resolution drop but it's hardly noticeable; and from what I read about the upcoming V1, the same thing may happen, or not, depending on whose evaluations you read. I'd like to see some real footage from the H1. The only thing I've seen have been the web compressions from the Texas shootout and they all looked pretty good.

Chris Hurd · October 14th, 2006, 11:03 PM

We've got an entire forum chock full of real footage from the H1... it's called XL H1 Sample Clips and it's located at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=101

Bill Pryor · October 15th, 2006, 09:13 AM

Yeah, now that you mention it, I've overlooked those because I had no interest in the H1. I have been unable to make the clips posted from the G1 to play on any of my computers, even with the application I downloaded. I dunno what the deal is there, maybe I'll try downloading them from home on a different system. I'll go see what the H1 clips will do.

James Swirsky · October 30th, 2006, 01:53 PM

Hey All,

Not too sure if this has been pointed out.

It looks like the mini site has been updated (WA lens is included, and I think there are some case studies that I haven't noticed before). Plus, sister sites for the A1, G1 and HV10 have been put up.

However, like their real life counterparts, the A1 & G1 sites are 'coming soon'.

Check it out:

http://usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/index.shtml

June 4th, 2006, 11:23 PM	#1
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Canon XL-H1 Mini-site with Whitepapers Check it out: http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XLH1/index.shtml Lots to explore! Web pages plus white papers covering Canon Optics, Image Controls, Inputs & Outputs, Frame Rates & Formats, CONSOLE Software, XL H1 Specifications, Accessories and more... an excellent online reference, direct from Canon USA. Dig in! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 18th, 2006, 05:39 PM	#3
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Canon Xl-H1 Mini-site with Whitepapers Please forgive me if this has been posted before. If this was posted before, I missed the significance of the information. The following is an informative mini-site dedicated to the XL-H1. http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XLH1/index.shtml The following link goes directly to the downloads section which has various whitepapers on the XL-H1. This area seems to have good information on how to use the settings of the camera. This goes far beyond the manual. http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XL..._library.shtml The following is an example of the detail of information provided in the whitepapers: Master pedestal: This adjusts the bottom portion of the Gamma curve without affecting the white portion of the Gamma curve. When the cursor is moved in the [+] direction, the dark areas of the image become brighter, and the contrast is reduced. Conversely, when it is moved in the [–] direction, these areas become darker, and the contrast is increased. This is user-adjustable to suit the user’s personal preference. Adjustment is possible in the –9 to +9 range, only in Camera mode. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 18th, 2006, 06:04 PM	#5
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Thanks Chris. I have just read all of the whitepapers. While a lot of the material is redundant, I thought they presented a lot of very useful information. I especially liked the explanations of the "Setup", "Master Pedestal" and the color matrices. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia Last edited by Dan Keaton; June 19th, 2006 at 08:04 AM.

October 14th, 2006, 07:20 PM	#9
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Sorry Bill, yes it has been tried, and no the two modes are definitely not compatible. Canon and Sony each use different methods for 24fps; and no Sony HDV deck will play back Canon's Frame mode. This was probably the primary compelling reason why Canon put Frame mode playback capability into their HV10 consumer HDV camcorder, so that there would be something available to use as a deck for video recorded in Canon's Frame mode. With regard to how Frame mode works, Steve Mullen has attempted to suss it out at this link: http://digitalcontentproducer.com/hd...005/index.html __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 14th, 2006, 11:03 PM	#11
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	We've got an entire forum chock full of real footage from the H1... it's called XL H1 Sample Clips and it's located at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=101 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 5th, 2006, 06:55 AM	#2
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Thanks for this. Now let's see a Mac version of Console, Canon! KW

October 14th, 2006, 02:14 PM	#6
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I just ran across this on that Canon site, about frame rates: These Frame modes have the same look as progressive frame rates, but are not labeled "progressive" because they are created with an interlaced chip. The end result is exactly the same to the editing system (and to our eyes) as 30p and 24p, respectively. Note: The actual frame rates are 59.94, 29.97 and 23.976 for 60i mode and 50 and 25 for 50i mode (optional). So, Canon generates progressive frames from interlaced chips, and so does Sony with its upcoming V1 camera. Sony says they do it by chopping each frame into two fields that butt together into a single frame. I wonder if Canon does it in the same way, and if so, would Canon's 24F footage, perhaps, play back on Sony's HDV decks? Probably not, but it's just a thought. Has anybody ever discussed how Canon actually does it, just out of curiosity?

October 14th, 2006, 02:53 PM	#8
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I guess the fantasy of compatability will forever remain a fantasy...to play back JVC 24p footage you need a JVC deck, to play back Sony 24p footage you need a Sony deck and to play back Canon 24p footage, you need another Canon camera. Unless you shoot SD 24p. Maybe now that Sony is telling us how they get 24p from interlace chips, Canon will, as you say, loosen up the veil of secrecy. If it turns out to be the same thing, that would be interesting, wouldn't it. I wonder if anybody has actually tried to play back a Canon 24F tape in a Sony HDV tape....

October 14th, 2006, 09:41 PM	#10
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Interesting article, not that I understand it. From what I read, I'm assuming that in 24F mode there may be a slight resolution drop but it's hardly noticeable; and from what I read about the upcoming V1, the same thing may happen, or not, depending on whose evaluations you read. I'd like to see some real footage from the H1. The only thing I've seen have been the web compressions from the Texas shootout and they all looked pretty good.

October 15th, 2006, 09:13 AM	#12
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Yeah, now that you mention it, I've overlooked those because I had no interest in the H1. I have been unable to make the clips posted from the G1 to play on any of my computers, even with the application I downloaded. I dunno what the deal is there, maybe I'll try downloading them from home on a different system. I'll go see what the H1 clips will do.

October 30th, 2006, 01:53 PM	#13
James Swirsky New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 16	Hey All, Not too sure if this has been pointed out. It looks like the mini site has been updated (WA lens is included, and I think there are some case studies that I haven't noticed before). Plus, sister sites for the A1, G1 and HV10 have been put up. However, like their real life counterparts, the A1 & G1 sites are 'coming soon'. Check it out: http://usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/index.shtml