Which mattebox do you have for your XL H1?

Patricia Lamm · September 19th, 2006, 10:12 AM

Good suggestion, Steve. I'll give that a try. So far 16x9 hasn't been able to give me this information.

Steve Rosen · September 19th, 2006, 11:28 AM

16x9 is the US importer for Chrosziel and is probably not aware of the boxes of lens gears sitting on shelves around the country - there're probably 10,000 in Burbank alone...

You could try looking for a lens repair tech, he could probably machine an existing gear for about the same as buying a new one (it's not rocket science.. chuck it up on a lathe and cut the interior surface till it matches) He may want your lens to be sure of the fit... FYI - the gear pitch for cine lenses is the same as the 20x gear...

This is the kind of thing that was common in the days before "box stores".. now it's getting a little more difficult..

Also, someone on this forum may have an answer if you're patient.. start a new thread in the XL1-2 thread (I know, no cross-posting, but truly it's a new question)... Good luck..

Jonas Nystrom · October 13th, 2006, 04:18 PM

Hello Matteboxlovers

I have a Crosziel 4x4 mattebox now and I have ordered the 6x zoom... it suddenly struck me... will the matteboxe vignette the picture if used with clamp on to the new wide (3.4mm). Has anyone used a Chrosziel or other 4x4 matteboxe with the old 3x SD zoom? Have look on this (from Vocas homepage); "If two 4X4" filters are placed against the front of a lens wider than 5 mm they will vignette. This means that the edges of one filter will be visible in the picture. If only one filter is placed against the lens front (without rotating) it will not vignette. Therefore it is impossible to design a mattebox with two 4X4" filters for lenses wider than 5 mm. ". It doesn't say if this is focal length @ 1/3" CCDs... what do you think? Do I have to invest in a 4x5.65" filter set-up?

For information, Chrosziel will have stepdown from 104 to 82 thread mount and a 85 mm split ring for clip-on outside of lens, if you have the same matteboxe as me!

Steve Rosen · October 16th, 2006, 12:20 PM

I use a 3x3 regularly with the 20x and the 16x, so I would assume the 4x4 would cover the WA.... I do have an older, shorter Chrosziel adapter ring that places the matte box about 1/4" closer to the front element than the one that comes with the current kits... Don't know the #, but it may solve any vingetting problems...

Robert Sanders · October 16th, 2006, 04:16 PM

Yes, the 3x vignettes at full wide. Even the Chrosziel matte box shows up on the edges of the frame.

Chris Hurd · October 16th, 2006, 04:27 PM

And now for a completely off-topic, minor interruption.

Robert, you've just made the 10,000th post to our XL H1 forum. That's a big milestone as far as I'm concerned, what with me bleeding Canon red and all. Send me your mailing address via private email, please -- you've just earned some swag. Thanks for giving this board its final push into the five-digit post count range. Much appreciated,

Floris van Eck · November 16th, 2006, 05:10 AM

What about the http://www.indiesnap.com/hd.html? It was mentioned early in this thread but nobody mentioned it in the last few pages. The price is nice and the build quality looks pretty decent.

The Chrosziel looks amazing but the price is really high. I am sure it is worth it but there might be alternatives that work just as good.

Joe Winchester · November 19th, 2006, 10:17 AM

I've got the Chrosziel setup on my XL2.... it is SWEET. I got the follow focus, rods and matte box all together. Not only is it extrememly functional, it is tough as well. I can sling my camera over my shoulder and not worry about bending or breaking anything.

Worth the 3 grand in my opinion....

Steve Rosen · November 19th, 2006, 01:48 PM

Another point, which has been made elsewhere, is that these accesories last. The mattebox I use with my Hi I originally bought over 10 years ago to use on my super16 camera, it has followed me through a DSR300, a DVX, and XL2 and now the H1. The baseplates are different, but I have modified mine twice to fit first the DVX and then the XL2 (which also fits the H1). Same with follow focus, although my original FF is a studio rig with controls on both sides, so it won't fit the H1 because of the lens handle... but the DV version, which I have as well, will fit anything.. They're well made and they last..

But, and this is a big "but" (and I don't mean it as a put down).. don't spend the cash if you just want your camera to look cool - most people don't need a high-end mattebox, and many don't need the FF at all.. The 3 grand would be better spent on the WA lens unless you really need it...

Floris van Eck · November 21st, 2006, 09:13 AM

Which people do need a mattebox according to you? I am going to shoot documentary and corporate video. It will be a matte box or normal filters, and I do not like to invest in something I need to replace in a later stadium. So with that logic, I prefer to invest in a good matte box instead of 72mm filters.

Floris van Eck · November 21st, 2006, 09:39 AM

Which people do need a mattebox according to you? I am going to shoot documentary and corporate video and short films in a later stadium. The chance is high that I will buy a matte box one day, so investing in 72mm filters is not a real option. So maybe the 6X WIDE is a better investment at this moment.

Steve Rosen · November 22nd, 2006, 10:50 AM

People who NEED matteboxes are those that use a lot of filters and filter combinations.. ie, a polarizer with a graduated ND with a ProMist.. (a combination I use often).. I have a super16 Chrosziel mattebox that allows me to use three filters.. I have accumulted, for particular jobs, over 50 filters in various sizes over the years, way too many as a matter of fact - many are color-correction and color-tint filters for shooting in film (with the H1 you can do this stuff in the menu)...

For the majority of the H1 shooting that I do I simply use an old 3x3 Chrosziel clamp-on, which is similar in size to the stock hood, but allows me to use two 3x3 filters - most often a SoftFX and a polarizer or a grad.

So much of what filters do can be done in the camera now that my filter kit tends to get smaller and smaller year after year..

Sure, an H1 with a big mattebox on rods with a follow-focus looks very pro-cool, but it's the pictures that count, not how the camera looks... This stuff is WAY expensive - the filters alone are $200@ and up, way up (my 4" round polarizer cost over $400) -

Sorry Tiffen and sorry Chrosziel, but I'm just saying, if you don't need it, save the cash for something else...

Bill Pryor · November 22nd, 2006, 12:10 PM

I wanted to get one of those smaller clamp-on lens hood/filter holder type matte boxes for the XH A1, but the guy at Cavision said the way the mic sticks out it would have to use an adapter extension ring and that probably would put it far enough out to cause corner vignetting. I think I'll just stick with my Series 9 filters and French flag.

Steve Rosen · November 22nd, 2006, 02:38 PM

S9s are fine,

but FYI, the 3x3 Chrosziel works fine on the H1, no mike interference at all.. by the way, I've mentioned it before but it should be known that I have an older Chrosziel adapter ring that doesn't stick out as far as the one that comes with the DV mattebox.. there could be vignetting with the longer one...

Bill Pryor · November 22nd, 2006, 03:12 PM

Oops I was talking about the A1...came here from email and didn't realize I was in the H1 thread.

October 13th, 2006, 04:18 PM	#63
Jonas Nystrom Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 306	Hello Matteboxlovers I have a Crosziel 4x4 mattebox now and I have ordered the 6x zoom... it suddenly struck me... will the matteboxe vignette the picture if used with clamp on to the new wide (3.4mm). Has anyone used a Chrosziel or other 4x4 matteboxe with the old 3x SD zoom? Have look on this (from Vocas homepage); "If two 4X4" filters are placed against the front of a lens wider than 5 mm they will vignette. This means that the edges of one filter will be visible in the picture. If only one filter is placed against the lens front (without rotating) it will not vignette. Therefore it is impossible to design a mattebox with two 4X4" filters for lenses wider than 5 mm. ". It doesn't say if this is focal length @ 1/3" CCDs... what do you think? Do I have to invest in a 4x5.65" filter set-up? For information, Chrosziel will have stepdown from 104 to 82 thread mount and a 85 mm split ring for clip-on outside of lens, if you have the same matteboxe as me! __________________ Jonas Nyström, DoP :: HOT SHOT® SWEDEN :: www.hotshot.nu :: RED #1567, RED 18-50mm T3 :: XL A1, Letus Extreme :: XL H1, 20X & 6X lens (for sale) :: www.vimeo.com/nystrom Last edited by Jonas Nystrom; October 13th, 2006 at 06:21 PM.

October 16th, 2006, 04:16 PM	#65
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	Yes, the 3x vignettes at full wide. Even the Chrosziel matte box shows up on the edges of the frame. __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

October 16th, 2006, 04:27 PM	#66
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	And now for a completely off-topic, minor interruption. Robert, you've just made the 10,000th post to our XL H1 forum. That's a big milestone as far as I'm concerned, what with me bleeding Canon red and all. Send me your mailing address via private email, please -- you've just earned some swag. Thanks for giving this board its final push into the five-digit post count range. Much appreciated, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 19th, 2006, 10:12 AM	#61
Patricia Lamm Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Okemos, MI Posts: 174	Good suggestion, Steve. I'll give that a try. So far 16x9 hasn't been able to give me this information.

September 19th, 2006, 11:28 AM	#62
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	16x9 is the US importer for Chrosziel and is probably not aware of the boxes of lens gears sitting on shelves around the country - there're probably 10,000 in Burbank alone... You could try looking for a lens repair tech, he could probably machine an existing gear for about the same as buying a new one (it's not rocket science.. chuck it up on a lathe and cut the interior surface till it matches) He may want your lens to be sure of the fit... FYI - the gear pitch for cine lenses is the same as the 20x gear... This is the kind of thing that was common in the days before "box stores".. now it's getting a little more difficult.. Also, someone on this forum may have an answer if you're patient.. start a new thread in the XL1-2 thread (I know, no cross-posting, but truly it's a new question)... Good luck..

October 16th, 2006, 12:20 PM	#64
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	I use a 3x3 regularly with the 20x and the 16x, so I would assume the 4x4 would cover the WA.... I do have an older, shorter Chrosziel adapter ring that places the matte box about 1/4" closer to the front element than the one that comes with the current kits... Don't know the #, but it may solve any vingetting problems...

November 16th, 2006, 05:10 AM	#67
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	What about the http://www.indiesnap.com/hd.html? It was mentioned early in this thread but nobody mentioned it in the last few pages. The price is nice and the build quality looks pretty decent. The Chrosziel looks amazing but the price is really high. I am sure it is worth it but there might be alternatives that work just as good.

November 19th, 2006, 10:17 AM	#68
Joe Winchester Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 125	I've got the Chrosziel setup on my XL2.... it is SWEET. I got the follow focus, rods and matte box all together. Not only is it extrememly functional, it is tough as well. I can sling my camera over my shoulder and not worry about bending or breaking anything. Worth the 3 grand in my opinion....

November 19th, 2006, 01:48 PM	#69
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Another point, which has been made elsewhere, is that these accesories last. The mattebox I use with my Hi I originally bought over 10 years ago to use on my super16 camera, it has followed me through a DSR300, a DVX, and XL2 and now the H1. The baseplates are different, but I have modified mine twice to fit first the DVX and then the XL2 (which also fits the H1). Same with follow focus, although my original FF is a studio rig with controls on both sides, so it won't fit the H1 because of the lens handle... but the DV version, which I have as well, will fit anything.. They're well made and they last.. But, and this is a big "but" (and I don't mean it as a put down).. don't spend the cash if you just want your camera to look cool - most people don't need a high-end mattebox, and many don't need the FF at all.. The 3 grand would be better spent on the WA lens unless you really need it...

November 21st, 2006, 09:13 AM	#70
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Which people do need a mattebox according to you? I am going to shoot documentary and corporate video. It will be a matte box or normal filters, and I do not like to invest in something I need to replace in a later stadium. So with that logic, I prefer to invest in a good matte box instead of 72mm filters.

November 21st, 2006, 09:39 AM	#71
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Which people do need a mattebox according to you? I am going to shoot documentary and corporate video and short films in a later stadium. The chance is high that I will buy a matte box one day, so investing in 72mm filters is not a real option. So maybe the 6X WIDE is a better investment at this moment.

November 22nd, 2006, 10:50 AM	#72
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	People who NEED matteboxes are those that use a lot of filters and filter combinations.. ie, a polarizer with a graduated ND with a ProMist.. (a combination I use often).. I have a super16 Chrosziel mattebox that allows me to use three filters.. I have accumulted, for particular jobs, over 50 filters in various sizes over the years, way too many as a matter of fact - many are color-correction and color-tint filters for shooting in film (with the H1 you can do this stuff in the menu)... For the majority of the H1 shooting that I do I simply use an old 3x3 Chrosziel clamp-on, which is similar in size to the stock hood, but allows me to use two 3x3 filters - most often a SoftFX and a polarizer or a grad. So much of what filters do can be done in the camera now that my filter kit tends to get smaller and smaller year after year.. Sure, an H1 with a big mattebox on rods with a follow-focus looks very pro-cool, but it's the pictures that count, not how the camera looks... This stuff is WAY expensive - the filters alone are $200@ and up, way up (my 4" round polarizer cost over $400) - Sorry Tiffen and sorry Chrosziel, but I'm just saying, if you don't need it, save the cash for something else...

November 22nd, 2006, 12:10 PM	#73
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I wanted to get one of those smaller clamp-on lens hood/filter holder type matte boxes for the XH A1, but the guy at Cavision said the way the mic sticks out it would have to use an adapter extension ring and that probably would put it far enough out to cause corner vignetting. I think I'll just stick with my Series 9 filters and French flag.

November 22nd, 2006, 02:38 PM	#74
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	S9s are fine, but FYI, the 3x3 Chrosziel works fine on the H1, no mike interference at all.. by the way, I've mentioned it before but it should be known that I have an older Chrosziel adapter ring that doesn't stick out as far as the one that comes with the DV mattebox.. there could be vignetting with the longer one...

November 22nd, 2006, 03:12 PM	#75
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Oops I was talking about the A1...came here from email and didn't realize I was in the H1 thread.