Tips and Tricks for the XL H1

Marc Olivier Chouinard · June 13th, 2006, 05:59 AM

I am sorry, but I was a big Canon XL H1 Fan, until I saw the real thing in term of HDV compression and 24f. You cannot say 24f is like 24p... I wish it were, but it not. And for HDV, it look like mpeg2 at 25mbits, and it get pretty bad something especially when you need to recompress it (DVD or Sat broadcast). And mp3 audio compression is also disapointing.

SDI port was interesting until I saw the price tag of recording device. And in the end, it still not progressive.

XL H1 is a GREAT camera for TV with the SDI port for HD broadcast. And make very nice looking video.

I understand Canon choices of doing this camera like they did, HDV is the only format available really that is inexpensive. The other solution is P2 format that Canon do not beleive today. Also their camera OS cannot support complex operation like P2 recording and would have drive the price up.

I wish Canon create a XL H1L, the samething as it is rightnow, without the SDI port, so they can sell it for 3k$. At that price, it is a interesting second camera.

Kevin Wild · June 13th, 2006, 12:33 PM

Sorry, Marc. I couldn't disagree more. Have you actually spent time using an H1? I've had one for 7 months now and find it to be an awesome camera. I have an XL2 with 24p and find there to be NO difference in the look of 24F versus 24P. None.

I originally thought I wouldn't use the SDI port, but now I do every time I load something so I can bring it in digitally to the DVCProHD codec through a Kona card.

It's an awesome camera...spend some time with it.

Oh...the GL3 should be on the way soon. Maybe that's something you'll like better...

KW

Johan Forssblad · July 8th, 2006, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Olivier Chouinard

I wish Canon create a XL H1L, the samething as it is rightnow, without the SDI port, so they can sell it for 3k$. At that price, it is a interesting second camera.

Come on Marc, 3k will not be sufficient for the body only nor the L-glass alone. Even without SDI.
No dear Canon, keep the quality and do not save on the components. I never regret I have bought an expensive quality thing. But I regret I bought cheap stuff when it breaks.

BTW, why do you wish to buy it for 3k when you can get it for free if you are lucky ...

Jesper Andersson · July 8th, 2006, 06:54 AM

I am a little bit conserned over the fact that there is a a delay in the viewfinder.
How does this work when shooting on fast moving objects like a car that travels in exess of 150mph / 240kph?

Steven Dempsey · July 10th, 2006, 10:37 AM

If you are doing serious shooting you need to use an external monitor where delays are not an issue.

Regarding your specific question, I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

Christopher Glaeser · July 10th, 2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Dempsey

Regarding your specific question, I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

Perhaps he is referring to the pixel switching time.

Best,
Christopher

Jesper Andersson · July 10th, 2006, 11:18 AM

Well an example to make it a little clearer.

In your finaljourney1 movie there is a sequense where "a steven dempsey film" text appears, there is a couple of cars passing by the camera.
Imagine that those cars where going in 150mp/h and you had to keep them
in frame as they are passing by.

So the question is: Is it hard to make pans when you have to keep the objects in frame all the time, the delay should make this harder?

Christopher Glaeser · July 10th, 2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper Andersson

the delay should make this harder?

To what delay are you referring? Are you suggesting that what you see in the viewfinder is not what is being recorded to film?

Best,
Christopher

Jesper Andersson · July 10th, 2006, 12:03 PM

"WOW, CHECK OUT THESE COOL MOTION EFFECTS!
There is maybe a 1/4 or 1/2 second delay in what you see in the EVF versus the live event. This is not a huge deal but if you are critically timing something it can be an issue. If you hook up a monitor to the camera, this delay is not present. There is also significant motion trailing in the EVF display that is not going to tape so don't be alarmed if you see this."

Harry Bromley-Davenport · July 11th, 2006, 01:30 PM

Jesper, if you connect a monitor to the port on the back of the camera, the delay most certainly IS present. There is a sound delay too.

Best

Harry.

Steven Dempsey · July 11th, 2006, 01:36 PM

I haven't noticed it using an HD monitor connected to the HD/SDI port.

Harry Bromley-Davenport · July 11th, 2006, 01:42 PM

I'm not referring to the SDI port. I'm talking about the component out D plug on the very back of the camera.

Best

Harry.

Steven Dempsey · July 11th, 2006, 01:44 PM

Haven't tried that myself.

Jon Bickford · July 11th, 2006, 04:05 PM

yes Jesper my experience is that fast moving objects at really long focal lengths can be a considerable problem thanks to that horrid viewfinder delay!

for a shoot like you mentioned a production monitor is probably not very practical because of the very fast panning and constant action at a race track (i would hope that's where they're driving at 150mph) you really need to be able to keep your left eye on the track and your right on the viewfinder to even know what's going on and you don't need to be looking down or to the side or whatever at an sdi monitor while tracking that stuff, i would say that at a very long focal length you ought to be able to keep a full shot of the car pretty consistently once you get used to it but for a shot of a driver in the cockpit of a grand prix car going by, forget it.

another problem with using an external monitor at a race track is that there are safety issues involved with shooting racing close up, i do a lot of still photography at champ car races and you have to keep an eye on what's going on around you at all times, if you are looking down at a monitor while reaching up to a pan handle on a camera you're not going to see that piece of carbon fiber shrapnel coming towards you from the wreck you didn't notice.

-Jon

Christopher Glaeser · July 11th, 2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper Andersson

This is not a huge deal but if you are critically timing something it can be an issue.

If the monitor displays what is being recorded to tape, why would a delay make it difficult to film objects like fast moving cars? When an astronomer photographs a star in the sky, does it matter that the star blew up several million years ago and the light in the sky is actually what the star looked like a billion years ago? Or, is the photograph blank because the star no longer exists?

Best,
Christopher

July 10th, 2006, 10:37 AM	#20
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	If you are doing serious shooting you need to use an external monitor where delays are not an issue. Regarding your specific question, I'm not sure what you mean exactly. __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

July 11th, 2006, 01:30 PM	#25
Harry Bromley-Davenport Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: LA CA Posts: 317	Delay Jesper, if you connect a monitor to the port on the back of the camera, the delay most certainly IS present. There is a sound delay too. Best Harry.

July 11th, 2006, 01:36 PM	#26
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	I haven't noticed it using an HD monitor connected to the HD/SDI port. __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

July 11th, 2006, 01:44 PM	#28
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	Haven't tried that myself. __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

July 11th, 2006, 04:05 PM	#29
Jon Bickford Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Las Vegas, NV., Los Angeles, CA, Posts: 220	yes Jesper my experience is that fast moving objects at really long focal lengths can be a considerable problem thanks to that horrid viewfinder delay! for a shoot like you mentioned a production monitor is probably not very practical because of the very fast panning and constant action at a race track (i would hope that's where they're driving at 150mph) you really need to be able to keep your left eye on the track and your right on the viewfinder to even know what's going on and you don't need to be looking down or to the side or whatever at an sdi monitor while tracking that stuff, i would say that at a very long focal length you ought to be able to keep a full shot of the car pretty consistently once you get used to it but for a shot of a driver in the cockpit of a grand prix car going by, forget it. another problem with using an external monitor at a race track is that there are safety issues involved with shooting racing close up, i do a lot of still photography at champ car races and you have to keep an eye on what's going on around you at all times, if you are looking down at a monitor while reaching up to a pan handle on a camera you're not going to see that piece of carbon fiber shrapnel coming towards you from the wreck you didn't notice. -Jon __________________ Jon Bickford, Trepany Films San Pedro, CA Trephine001@aol.com

June 13th, 2006, 05:59 AM	#16
Marc Olivier Chouinard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Québec Canada Posts: 26	I am sorry, but I was a big Canon XL H1 Fan, until I saw the real thing in term of HDV compression and 24f. You cannot say 24f is like 24p... I wish it were, but it not. And for HDV, it look like mpeg2 at 25mbits, and it get pretty bad something especially when you need to recompress it (DVD or Sat broadcast). And mp3 audio compression is also disapointing. SDI port was interesting until I saw the price tag of recording device. And in the end, it still not progressive. XL H1 is a GREAT camera for TV with the SDI port for HD broadcast. And make very nice looking video. I understand Canon choices of doing this camera like they did, HDV is the only format available really that is inexpensive. The other solution is P2 format that Canon do not beleive today. Also their camera OS cannot support complex operation like P2 recording and would have drive the price up. I wish Canon create a XL H1L, the samething as it is rightnow, without the SDI port, so they can sell it for 3k$. At that price, it is a interesting second camera.

June 13th, 2006, 12:33 PM	#17
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Sorry, Marc. I couldn't disagree more. Have you actually spent time using an H1? I've had one for 7 months now and find it to be an awesome camera. I have an XL2 with 24p and find there to be NO difference in the look of 24F versus 24P. None. I originally thought I wouldn't use the SDI port, but now I do every time I load something so I can bring it in digitally to the DVCProHD codec through a Kona card. It's an awesome camera...spend some time with it. Oh...the GL3 should be on the way soon. Maybe that's something you'll like better... KW

July 8th, 2006, 06:54 AM	#19
Jesper Andersson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden - Halmstad Posts: 28	I am a little bit conserned over the fact that there is a a delay in the viewfinder. How does this work when shooting on fast moving objects like a car that travels in exess of 150mph / 240kph?

July 10th, 2006, 11:18 AM	#22
Jesper Andersson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden - Halmstad Posts: 28	Well an example to make it a little clearer. In your finaljourney1 movie there is a sequense where "a steven dempsey film" text appears, there is a couple of cars passing by the camera. Imagine that those cars where going in 150mp/h and you had to keep them in frame as they are passing by. So the question is: Is it hard to make pans when you have to keep the objects in frame all the time, the delay should make this harder?

July 10th, 2006, 12:03 PM	#24
Jesper Andersson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden - Halmstad Posts: 28	"WOW, CHECK OUT THESE COOL MOTION EFFECTS! There is maybe a 1/4 or 1/2 second delay in what you see in the EVF versus the live event. This is not a huge deal but if you are critically timing something it can be an issue. If you hook up a monitor to the camera, this delay is not present. There is also significant motion trailing in the EVF display that is not going to tape so don't be alarmed if you see this."

July 11th, 2006, 01:42 PM	#27
Harry Bromley-Davenport Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: LA CA Posts: 317	I'm not referring to the SDI port. I'm talking about the component out D plug on the very back of the camera. Best Harry.