panasonic hvx200??? at DVinfo.net

Victor Burdiladze · April 4th, 2006, 08:10 PM

guys I have been in Canon camp for a long time(GL2, XL2) after reviewing Panasonic's new hvx200 features I'm having second thoughts to buy that one instead of Canon h1, as my new hdv camera.
What do you think? What made you choose Canon h1 over Panasonic
Thanks
Vic

Brad Schreiber · April 4th, 2006, 08:20 PM

I'd rather pay $16 for an hour for an hour of HDV storage versus $1,400 or whatever the P2 cards are going for these days. I like the HVX as well, but the P2 thing is a killer.

Victor Burdiladze · April 4th, 2006, 08:27 PM

I hear you Brad, but considering H1 price I wont be saving much; and if I go uncompressed with H1 then we talking about additional $ with external hard drives, and all that...
plus Panasonic hhas so many other pro fitures as differrent speeds, 24p and all that...

David Mintzer · April 4th, 2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Burdiladze

I hear you Brad, but considering H1 price I wont be saving much; and if I go uncompressed with H1 then we talking about additional $ with external hard drives, and all that...
plus Panasonic hhas so many other pro fitures as differrent speeds, 24p and all that...

The HVX200 has got very mixed reviews. I would recommend going over to DVX user and reading the thread on the camera before making a decision.

Eric Brown · April 4th, 2006, 08:30 PM

The question might be easier answered if you can say what your specific plans are for the camera. The only thing stopping me are the costly P2 cards. But there are options such as the Firestore.

Brad Schreiber · April 4th, 2006, 08:34 PM

Won't you have to store uncompressed P2 footage as well? I agree the $$$$ of the XLH1 is up there, but I'm a rental kind of guy, so that cost is relative. I wish the P2 system was more cost effective, because it's got FCP support. Also, the XLH1 has better low light pickup, which I need-- 'Cause I'm lazy, and I don't like putting up lights (joke).

Daniel Epstein · April 4th, 2006, 08:37 PM

Victor,
The Panasonic is not an HDV camera. It is an HD/SD cam depending on which recording media you use. It is a Mini DV camera if you go to tape. It relies on P2 or external recording for higher quality recordings.
The main reason I went with an XLH1 is the expandability of the Canon removable lense architecture, 24F and 30F in HDV and the HDSDI Out.
Of course they haven't come out with the HD options as fast as i would like and there are workflow issues with both units.
To me the P2 technology is a trojan horse workflow. The camera is inexpensive but the media solutions are not. Having recently replaced harddrives on both my Powerbooks I am appreciating keeping a copy of my material on a tape.
On the other hand the execution of the Canon has its problems and I don't think any of the Affordable High Def cameras are complete yet.

Victor Burdiladze · April 4th, 2006, 08:37 PM

Erick, my plans are pimarily film-making, secondary maybe some event videography but for that I have XL2 and GL2.
David, I read recent SUDIo (among others) and reviews were grate, although Canon had good reviews too, so...

Victor Burdiladze · April 4th, 2006, 08:53 PM

Daniel, I agree that no low cost Hd/v cameras are complete and all require lot of additional development, that's why I've been waiting for so long before making a new purchase...

P.S. I knew about Panasonic being HD/SD, I'm just too lazy when I type.

P.P.S.Thanks for replying everybody

John Cordell · April 4th, 2006, 08:59 PM

I do narrative film making as well, and it was a close call for me between these two cameras. I spent a lot of time understanding both cameras and looking at footage from both and playing with both in person. I suspect neither camera would be a big mistake.

For me, the HD-SDI, the interchangeable lenses, and the high rez CCDs were the key selling point of the H1 vs. the HVX200. It just feels more future proof. I imagine in two or three years I might be shooting through a better lens, maybe via 35mm adapter, at which point being able to remove the glass should help with the light loss that's inherent is those adapters. I also suspect that I might be capturing an uncompressed or modestly compressed version of the HD-DSI out, at which point the HDV tape becomes purely a backup.

I wasn't put off by the cost of P2 at all, but I was very worried about the fact that archival of the footage becomes an IT problem. Backing up 100s of gigs of data isn't all that easy right now. Doable but not super easy. That'll change, of course, but I'm disorganized enough that I feared that I'd capture footage onto a drive and then have a mess on my hands when my disk space was full or when I had failed to back it up.

With tape, I like that I pop the tape out, flip the write-enable switch, capture it and put it away in a safe place (a safe, actually!).

Thuth be told, if I'd gone HVX200, I'd have solved all of the workflow downsides and been damn happy with that camera too.

Form factor for the cameras is quite different as well, so that could be a deciding issue for many buyers. For me the bulkier XL-H1 wasn't a big downside.

I've been super happy with my choice of the H1, but I bet I'd be happy if I'd gone the other way too.

Kevin Shaw · April 4th, 2006, 09:18 PM

The HVX200 is currently a challenge in terms of capture and storage capacity issues, but otherwise could be a good choice for your film-making projects. The XLH1 seems expensive to me unless you really need things like the HD-SDI output, in which case it's arguably a bargain. My suggestion would be to try to arrange to rent each camera for a day or two and play around with them to get a sense for their differences; once you've done that you'll have a better idea which one might suit your needs. Either way, figure about $10K including accessories for either camera, if you count memory capacity for the HVX200.

Victor Burdiladze · April 4th, 2006, 09:20 PM

John, I know, neither my XL2, nor any low cost HD/v will give me 35mm or 16mm results(or even real hd, for that matter), but I've heard a lot of advantages of even compressed HDV over DV.
Is the difference that drastic between those two?

Victor Burdiladze · April 4th, 2006, 09:26 PM

I'm also considering the fact that the prices on P2 cards are dropping - it was $2000, now it is $1400...

John Benton · April 4th, 2006, 09:37 PM

Victor,
It depends on you.
I was a die hard HVXer (it's a wonderful Cam)
--After many real world tests I couldn't deny the Higher Res, less noise of the H1.
--Then, having access to a G5, you can get uncompressed HD for 1500$ extra (Kona card: 500% + 2 x 500Gig Raid @ 500$).
Portable solutions are on the way. With the Canon I can grow.
In a few years I will still have this Camera and be doing uncompressed HD
By the end of the year, with the HVX, I could see wanting an upgrade.
-- I am also beta testing a 35mm adapter that has a relay lens and mounts directly on the body of the H1...Being able to control the glass = wow

But Really, we all wanna justify our decisions. Both Cameras are great and it's how you use it that matters.

Victor Burdiladze · April 4th, 2006, 09:52 PM

John, I have mac G5 myself so I'll take that to consideration, uncompressed hd is definitely tempting

April 4th, 2006, 08:10 PM	#1
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	panasonic hvx200??? guys I have been in Canon camp for a long time(GL2, XL2) after reviewing Panasonic's new hvx200 features I'm having second thoughts to buy that one instead of Canon h1, as my new hdv camera. What do you think? What made you choose Canon h1 over Panasonic Thanks Vic

April 4th, 2006, 08:20 PM	#2
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Canon vs Panasonic I'd rather pay $16 for an hour for an hour of HDV storage versus $1,400 or whatever the P2 cards are going for these days. I like the HVX as well, but the P2 thing is a killer.

April 4th, 2006, 08:34 PM	#6
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Storage is as storage does Won't you have to store uncompressed P2 footage as well? I agree the $$$$ of the XLH1 is up there, but I'm a rental kind of guy, so that cost is relative. I wish the P2 system was more cost effective, because it's got FCP support. Also, the XLH1 has better low light pickup, which I need-- 'Cause I'm lazy, and I don't like putting up lights (joke).

April 4th, 2006, 08:27 PM	#3
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	I hear you Brad, but considering H1 price I wont be saving much; and if I go uncompressed with H1 then we talking about additional $ with external hard drives, and all that... plus Panasonic hhas so many other pro fitures as differrent speeds, 24p and all that...

April 4th, 2006, 08:30 PM	#5
Eric Brown Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 427	The question might be easier answered if you can say what your specific plans are for the camera. The only thing stopping me are the costly P2 cards. But there are options such as the Firestore.

April 4th, 2006, 08:37 PM	#7
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Victor, The Panasonic is not an HDV camera. It is an HD/SD cam depending on which recording media you use. It is a Mini DV camera if you go to tape. It relies on P2 or external recording for higher quality recordings. The main reason I went with an XLH1 is the expandability of the Canon removable lense architecture, 24F and 30F in HDV and the HDSDI Out. Of course they haven't come out with the HD options as fast as i would like and there are workflow issues with both units. To me the P2 technology is a trojan horse workflow. The camera is inexpensive but the media solutions are not. Having recently replaced harddrives on both my Powerbooks I am appreciating keeping a copy of my material on a tape. On the other hand the execution of the Canon has its problems and I don't think any of the Affordable High Def cameras are complete yet.

April 4th, 2006, 08:53 PM	#9
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	Daniel, I agree that no low cost Hd/v cameras are complete and all require lot of additional development, that's why I've been waiting for so long before making a new purchase... P.S. I knew about Panasonic being HD/SD, I'm just too lazy when I type. P.P.S.Thanks for replying everybody

April 4th, 2006, 08:59 PM	#10
John Cordell Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 69	I do narrative film making as well, and it was a close call for me between these two cameras. I spent a lot of time understanding both cameras and looking at footage from both and playing with both in person. I suspect neither camera would be a big mistake. For me, the HD-SDI, the interchangeable lenses, and the high rez CCDs were the key selling point of the H1 vs. the HVX200. It just feels more future proof. I imagine in two or three years I might be shooting through a better lens, maybe via 35mm adapter, at which point being able to remove the glass should help with the light loss that's inherent is those adapters. I also suspect that I might be capturing an uncompressed or modestly compressed version of the HD-DSI out, at which point the HDV tape becomes purely a backup. I wasn't put off by the cost of P2 at all, but I was very worried about the fact that archival of the footage becomes an IT problem. Backing up 100s of gigs of data isn't all that easy right now. Doable but not super easy. That'll change, of course, but I'm disorganized enough that I feared that I'd capture footage onto a drive and then have a mess on my hands when my disk space was full or when I had failed to back it up. With tape, I like that I pop the tape out, flip the write-enable switch, capture it and put it away in a safe place (a safe, actually!). Thuth be told, if I'd gone HVX200, I'd have solved all of the workflow downsides and been damn happy with that camera too. Form factor for the cameras is quite different as well, so that could be a deciding issue for many buyers. For me the bulkier XL-H1 wasn't a big downside. I've been super happy with my choice of the H1, but I bet I'd be happy if I'd gone the other way too.

April 4th, 2006, 09:18 PM	#11
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	The HVX200 is currently a challenge in terms of capture and storage capacity issues, but otherwise could be a good choice for your film-making projects. The XLH1 seems expensive to me unless you really need things like the HD-SDI output, in which case it's arguably a bargain. My suggestion would be to try to arrange to rent each camera for a day or two and play around with them to get a sense for their differences; once you've done that you'll have a better idea which one might suit your needs. Either way, figure about $10K including accessories for either camera, if you count memory capacity for the HVX200.

April 4th, 2006, 09:20 PM	#12
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	John, I know, neither my XL2, nor any low cost HD/v will give me 35mm or 16mm results(or even real hd, for that matter), but I've heard a lot of advantages of even compressed HDV over DV. Is the difference that drastic between those two?

April 4th, 2006, 09:26 PM	#13
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	I'm also considering the fact that the prices on P2 cards are dropping - it was $2000, now it is $1400...

April 4th, 2006, 09:37 PM	#14
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	Victor, It depends on you. I was a die hard HVXer (it's a wonderful Cam) --After many real world tests I couldn't deny the Higher Res, less noise of the H1. --Then, having access to a G5, you can get uncompressed HD for 1500$ extra (Kona card: 500% + 2 x 500Gig Raid @ 500$). Portable solutions are on the way. With the Canon I can grow. In a few years I will still have this Camera and be doing uncompressed HD By the end of the year, with the HVX, I could see wanting an upgrade. -- I am also beta testing a 35mm adapter that has a relay lens and mounts directly on the body of the H1...Being able to control the glass = wow But Really, we all wanna justify our decisions. Both Cameras are great and it's how you use it that matters.

April 4th, 2006, 09:52 PM	#15
Victor Burdiladze Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, US Posts: 102	John, I have mac G5 myself so I'll take that to consideration, uncompressed hd is definitely tempting