FCP 5.1 adds some support for XLH1 at DVinfo.net

Barry Green · March 29th, 2006, 05:56 PM

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Fin..._5.0_lbn_z.pdf

Says that it now recognizes the XLH1, and includes an easy setup preset for 1080/50i and 1080/60i. The document doesn't mention any 24F or 30F support though.

Robert Sanders · March 29th, 2006, 07:56 PM

This is totally unacceptable. H1 and HD100 users have been waiting an eternity for some simple, basic, support from Apple on this and they've left us out in the cold. Canon sent Apple the camera over SIX MONTHS AGO and they've had the JVC even longer.

Outrageous.

Gary McClurg · March 29th, 2006, 08:27 PM

A rep from one of the camera houses said that FCP will support the JVC and Canon 24f by NAB...

Haven't shot with the Canon... but we shot with the JVC... a crew went down to Cancun and did second unit...

Then I had the footage uprezzed to HDCAM and what I saw of it... it looked great...

Plus a friend and I played with the JVC on Sunday... played with one of the guy's here settings and well it looked great also... almost like 16mm...

So I need to get my hands on the Canon and play with it... but who knows the RED might be out by NAB... or I wish it was...

Robert Sanders · March 29th, 2006, 08:43 PM

Yeah, so they can fleece us for a full upgrade price while all the HVX user's got a free regular update.

Brad Schreiber · March 30th, 2006, 10:12 AM

When will it be released?

Nik Manning · March 30th, 2006, 10:48 AM

Maybe Im reading this wrong. Can anybody clarify for me.
"Removing Duplicate Frames During Import from Panasonic P2 Media
Using a new option in the Import Panasonic P2 window, you can now remove
duplicate frames when transferring footage to your scratch disk. This option provides
several benefits: the transferred QuickTime files require less disk space and they can be
edited at their native frame rate."

1080i60 24p 100 Mbps (advanced pulldown) = 1080p24 80 Mbps
does this mean that it edits it now and takes less space?

Chris Hurd · March 30th, 2006, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary McClurg

RED might be out by NAB...

RED will show a static prototype at NAB, but the camera doesn't ship until then end of the year. That was made clear by Jannard and company from the beginning.

Barlow Elton · March 30th, 2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nik Manning

1080i60 24p 100 Mbps (advanced pulldown) = 1080p24 80 Mbps
does this mean that it edits it now and takes less space?

It should. It works like the DVX and XL2 in SD, only in HD now.

Barry, (if you're reading this)

Is there something inherently different about the 24p data from HVX 1080 than H1 24F? Aren't they both fairly simple 3:2 pulldowns to fit within a 1080i spec?

Please enlighten...

Gary McClurg · March 30th, 2006, 02:06 PM

I knew the camera wasn't going to be out at NAB... but you can always dream...

Looks like I might be shooting my project with a Cine Alta most likely...

Barry Green · March 31st, 2006, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nik Manning

1080i60 24p 100 Mbps (advanced pulldown) = 1080p24 80 Mbps
does this mean that it edits it now and takes less space?

Yes, to both.

Brad Schreiber · March 31st, 2006, 02:15 AM

Will owners of FCP Studio 5 get access to 5.1, or do we have to shell out more cash? Avid does not make you pay for an upgrade until a whole new version number (v 1.0, 2.0...) comes along.

Barry Green · March 31st, 2006, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barlow Elton

Is there something inherently different about the 24p data from HVX 1080 than H1 24F? Aren't they both fairly simple 3:2 pulldowns to fit within a 1080i spec?

No, the HVX 1080 is, but the H1 isn't.

The HVX 1080 uses either 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown within a 60i stream.

The H1 doesn't use any pulldown at all, apparently. As near as I can tell from reading the Canon docs, it encodes 24 frames progressively and only 24 frames, no pulldown added.

The HVX 1080 codec is a known factor; the 24p frames are embedded using 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown within 60i, and that 60i is something that Apple's known and been working with for around two years now. So removing the pulldown was apparently a minor thing for them to do. Note that FCP still doesn't support the 2:3 pulldown method on 1080/24p HVX footage; they've added support only for the 2:3:3:2/24PA mode.

On the XLH1/24F, Canon doesn't use pulldown within 60i when recording to tape. If they did, it would have been compatible with the Sony and the Sony deck could play it. But Canon didn't, they effectively invented their own format. Which has its good and its bad points -- good = potentially a much more robust, artifact-free encoding, since it can take advantage of a) more bandwidth allocated per frame, and b) progressive encoding, which is easier and more efficient than interlaced encoding. But the bad point is -- it's incompatible with anything that's come before. Won't play on the Sony decks, or in the Sony cameras, and isn't supported by the editing programs (except Vegas; I think Vegas supports XLH1 24F, doesn't it?)

There's a bit of confusion on the Canon's 24F about whether it uses pulldown or not. When output analog or HD-SDI, my understanding is that it DOES insert pulldown in order to transmit a SMPTE-compliant 1920x1080x60i signal. But when recorded to tape, it does NOT introduce any pulldown. If you play back from tape, the camera will introduce pulldown on playback.

Barlow Elton · March 31st, 2006, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

When output analog or HD-SDI, my understanding is that it DOES insert pulldown in order to transmit a SMPTE-compliant 1920x1080x60i signal. But when recorded to tape, it does NOT introduce any pulldown. If you play back from tape, the camera will introduce pulldown on playback.

It does indeed introduce pulldown in the SDI 1080i. It's workable in Cinema Tools to extract the pulldown and leave the progressive sequence as a new clip. Works fine but it's a minor hassle.

24F in the HDV capture window as of right now is very skippy and won't work because of the aforementioned encoding. I'm in agreement that it's encoding 24P to tape, with repeat flags encoded for the playback to work with existing standards...alot like 24p DVD's.

Chris Hurd · March 31st, 2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

There's a bit of confusion on the Canon's 24F about whether it uses pulldown or not.

Thanks for all of your great input as usual, Barry. Just to clarify, in standard definition SD mode, Canon's 24F does indeed use pulldown; in fact you can select from the menu either 2:3 or 2:3:3:2, just as if it were an XL2.

John Cordell · March 31st, 2006, 10:00 AM

Having re-read the manual (p56), Canon does, in HD mode, put 24 frames per second onto tape (not 48 fields as I earlier claimed). On playback they insert pulldown.

In SD 24f mode, the pulldown lands on tape itself, and you get your choice of 2:3 or 2:3:3:2.

March 29th, 2006, 05:56 PM	#1
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	FCP 5.1 adds some support for XLH1 http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Fin..._5.0_lbn_z.pdf Says that it now recognizes the XLH1, and includes an easy setup preset for 1080/50i and 1080/60i. The document doesn't mention any 24F or 30F support though.

March 29th, 2006, 07:56 PM	#2
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	This is totally unacceptable. H1 and HD100 users have been waiting an eternity for some simple, basic, support from Apple on this and they've left us out in the cold. Canon sent Apple the camera over SIX MONTHS AGO and they've had the JVC even longer. Outrageous. __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 29th, 2006, 08:43 PM	#4
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	Yeah, so they can fleece us for a full upgrade price while all the HVX user's got a free regular update. __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 30th, 2006, 10:12 AM	#5
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Fcp 5.1 When will it be released?

March 30th, 2006, 10:48 AM	#6
Nik Manning Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: los angeles california Posts: 9	native 1080p24? Maybe Im reading this wrong. Can anybody clarify for me. "Removing Duplicate Frames During Import from Panasonic P2 Media Using a new option in the Import Panasonic P2 window, you can now remove duplicate frames when transferring footage to your scratch disk. This option provides several benefits: the transferred QuickTime files require less disk space and they can be edited at their native frame rate." 1080i60 24p 100 Mbps (advanced pulldown) = 1080p24 80 Mbps does this mean that it edits it now and takes less space?

March 29th, 2006, 08:27 PM	#3
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	A rep from one of the camera houses said that FCP will support the JVC and Canon 24f by NAB... Haven't shot with the Canon... but we shot with the JVC... a crew went down to Cancun and did second unit... Then I had the footage uprezzed to HDCAM and what I saw of it... it looked great... Plus a friend and I played with the JVC on Sunday... played with one of the guy's here settings and well it looked great also... almost like 16mm... So I need to get my hands on the Canon and play with it... but who knows the RED might be out by NAB... or I wish it was...

March 30th, 2006, 02:06 PM	#9
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	I knew the camera wasn't going to be out at NAB... but you can always dream... Looks like I might be shooting my project with a Cine Alta most likely...

March 31st, 2006, 02:15 AM	#11
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Fcp 5.1 Will owners of FCP Studio 5 get access to 5.1, or do we have to shell out more cash? Avid does not make you pay for an upgrade until a whole new version number (v 1.0, 2.0...) comes along.

March 31st, 2006, 10:00 AM	#15
John Cordell Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 69	Having re-read the manual (p56), Canon does, in HD mode, put 24 frames per second onto tape (not 48 fields as I earlier claimed). On playback they insert pulldown. In SD 24f mode, the pulldown lands on tape itself, and you get your choice of 2:3 or 2:3:3:2.