Sony/Canon Dub -- It Works! at DVinfo.net

Brad Schreiber · March 25th, 2006, 01:33 AM

Hey guys, I'm trying to dub via Firewire to my DSR-1500A, and when I set the deck to iLink dub mode, it rewinds fine, but as it plays it gives me a Video Signal Interrupted error. I've set the camera to downconvert to DV, so that's not the problem. Any thoughts?

Chris Hurd · March 25th, 2006, 01:43 AM

When you shot this video on the XL H1, which frame rate did you use... 60i, 30F or 24F?

Brad Schreiber · March 25th, 2006, 02:06 AM

I shot it at 24F.

Daniel Epstein · March 25th, 2006, 08:14 AM

Brad,
Does it stop at the end of a camera cut. The DSR-1500A tended to be very finicky when dubbing DV tapes on a project I worked on several years ago. It would stop on certain camera cuts and you would have to manually restart it. I don't know if there is a menu setting for this. My DSR-45 doesn't seem to do this.
It might have something to do with trying to clone the timecode which is what we were doing on that project.

Brad Schreiber · March 25th, 2006, 12:53 PM

It rewinds to the start of the tape, then goes, but will not record, saying the video signal has been interrupted.

Daniel Epstein · March 25th, 2006, 01:39 PM

Just for grins you might want to try copying without the timecode Being cloned and see if that works. Also you should try having the XLH1 or other deck already being playing when you start the DSR1500A. It might be looking for a signal which only occurs during play

Brad Schreiber · March 25th, 2006, 02:57 PM

No grins here, nothings working. This camera gets great pickup, but what
&^%$ good is it if nobody can cut with it? This is driving me nuts.

Daniel Epstein · March 25th, 2006, 06:15 PM

Brad,
Sorry to hear you are having some many problems. Maybe checking the manual of both the deck and camera is necessary. You should know that Canon probably doesn't expect you to dub from the camera to a DSR-1500A so you may be one of the first. On the other hand it still could be a basic wiring or switch error.
Are you seeing E to E through the firewire at the DSR-1500A when you just play a tape on the XLH1? (something so simple no one would ask). Have you tried to record that? Does the DSR-1500a have an input switch for video? My DSR-45 has switches for DV, SVHS, Composite and Component and will record black if I have the switch in the wrong place
Does the DSR-1500A dub dv or DVCAM. The XLH1 is DV and Sony is always a little strange with DV with timecode. The DSR-1500A likes DVCAM
There is one more thing you can try and that is analog composite out with timecode and audio from the XLH1 as seperate inputs into the DSR-1500A. I want to see you at least get a recording to the 1500A before you determine it is the firewire protocol. If that doesn't work I don't know what else.
I know everyone bought the camera because it can do HDV 24F but I have cautioned clients against shooting it because of the playback difficulties of the format. Good Luck

Brad Schreiber · March 25th, 2006, 07:57 PM

Still trying, still failing. Thanks for your help Daniel, but this camera seems like a beautiful waste of time.

Chris Hurd · March 25th, 2006, 09:41 PM

I'm pretty sure it's a 24F incompatibility. The Sony deck doesn't know what to do with it.

Brad Schreiber · March 26th, 2006, 12:03 AM

Thanks for offering the suggestions, it's just irritating to have to jump through hoops when you're trying to be creative. I just want to tell a story, instead I'm having to become Mr. Fix-It. I heard that these tapes cannot be played in any deck, other than the camera. If I take this to a high end post house (ie Laser Pacific in LA) would they be able to convert them to DVCAM?

Daniel Epstein · March 26th, 2006, 11:26 AM

Brad,

I have to say you should take a camera with you to what ever post house you try and make the dubs. As for your other responses they have so little detail it is hard to figure out what is happening. Does the DVCAM deck record anything from the camera? Does it work in DV? In any setting? Can't tell what you have tried and what failed. There are some settings in the XLH! playback which you should check. Playback HDV and Downconvert are 2 seperate menu items. Do you have another DV deck and tape which you can confirm the DSR-1500A works the way you want it to with the Canon?

As for Chris's suggestion about 24F it would be very interesting to know that the HDV 24F downconvert to DV is not DV according to the DSR-1500A. My guess is that this is not the case. He is correct though that you are trying to record a 24f signal on a 59.97 system so the downconvert has to be adding/blending frames to the signal to make it conform to regular DV. I think the issue is related to the 1500A which means you should be cursing Sony almost as much as Canon.

One of the problems with just being creative in a technical field is you can end up with issues which are not solvable with the gear you have at your disposal. This is why most people do tests and spend a lot of time figuring out best practices so they know it works. You are in that process now whether you like it or not. Once you figure out how to use it you won't spend much time on this the next time.

Brad Schreiber · March 26th, 2006, 01:58 PM

Perhaps I have been doing the wrong thing with downconvert. I go into the H1's menu and select the AV->DV toggle. Below it is another item that is greyed out, and cannot be switched in any way called HD Down-Conv--.
I assumed that AV->DV was the right selection. As for how I have been shooting, I am going 24F onto a Sony HDV tape.

As for what I've tried and failed, every suggestion put up here. Tried switching DSR from DVCAM to DV. Nothing. I don't have another deck, so no more attempts can be made.

Barlow Elton · March 26th, 2006, 02:48 PM

AV-->DV is for converting SVideo or composite NTSC to DV. It's probably greyed out because you have AV DV toggled on.

Brad Schreiber · March 26th, 2006, 03:08 PM

Hallelujuah! I reset the playback standard to HDV, and set the downconvert to DV, presto my DSR-1500A started an AV/TC dub without any fuss! I figured out what was messing me up, I already had the Firewire plug inserted into the H1. Once you do that, it locks the playback standards. You should have seen my face when I unplugged the cord, and the previously locked menu items popped open.Thanks to Daniel, Barlow, and the other guys who listened to me bitch and moan all weekend. Love this camera.

March 25th, 2006, 01:33 AM	#1
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Sony/Canon Dub -- It Works! Hey guys, I'm trying to dub via Firewire to my DSR-1500A, and when I set the deck to iLink dub mode, it rewinds fine, but as it plays it gives me a Video Signal Interrupted error. I've set the camera to downconvert to DV, so that's not the problem. Any thoughts?

March 25th, 2006, 01:43 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	When you shot this video on the XL H1, which frame rate did you use... 60i, 30F or 24F? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 25th, 2006, 02:06 AM	#3
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Frame rate I shot it at 24F.

March 25th, 2006, 12:53 PM	#5
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	It never starts It rewinds to the start of the tape, then goes, but will not record, saying the video signal has been interrupted.

March 25th, 2006, 02:57 PM	#7
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	No grins No grins here, nothings working. This camera gets great pickup, but what &^%$ good is it if nobody can cut with it? This is driving me nuts.

March 25th, 2006, 08:14 AM	#4
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Brad, Does it stop at the end of a camera cut. The DSR-1500A tended to be very finicky when dubbing DV tapes on a project I worked on several years ago. It would stop on certain camera cuts and you would have to manually restart it. I don't know if there is a menu setting for this. My DSR-45 doesn't seem to do this. It might have something to do with trying to clone the timecode which is what we were doing on that project.

March 25th, 2006, 01:39 PM	#6
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Just for grins you might want to try copying without the timecode Being cloned and see if that works. Also you should try having the XLH1 or other deck already being playing when you start the DSR1500A. It might be looking for a signal which only occurs during play

March 25th, 2006, 06:15 PM	#8
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Brad, Sorry to hear you are having some many problems. Maybe checking the manual of both the deck and camera is necessary. You should know that Canon probably doesn't expect you to dub from the camera to a DSR-1500A so you may be one of the first. On the other hand it still could be a basic wiring or switch error. Are you seeing E to E through the firewire at the DSR-1500A when you just play a tape on the XLH1? (something so simple no one would ask). Have you tried to record that? Does the DSR-1500a have an input switch for video? My DSR-45 has switches for DV, SVHS, Composite and Component and will record black if I have the switch in the wrong place Does the DSR-1500A dub dv or DVCAM. The XLH1 is DV and Sony is always a little strange with DV with timecode. The DSR-1500A likes DVCAM There is one more thing you can try and that is analog composite out with timecode and audio from the XLH1 as seperate inputs into the DSR-1500A. I want to see you at least get a recording to the 1500A before you determine it is the firewire protocol. If that doesn't work I don't know what else. I know everyone bought the camera because it can do HDV 24F but I have cautioned clients against shooting it because of the playback difficulties of the format. Good Luck

March 25th, 2006, 07:57 PM	#9
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	No luck yet. Still trying, still failing. Thanks for your help Daniel, but this camera seems like a beautiful waste of time.

March 25th, 2006, 09:41 PM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	I'm pretty sure it's a 24F incompatibility. The Sony deck doesn't know what to do with it. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 26th, 2006, 12:03 AM	#11
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Having them dubbed. Thanks for offering the suggestions, it's just irritating to have to jump through hoops when you're trying to be creative. I just want to tell a story, instead I'm having to become Mr. Fix-It. I heard that these tapes cannot be played in any deck, other than the camera. If I take this to a high end post house (ie Laser Pacific in LA) would they be able to convert them to DVCAM?

March 26th, 2006, 11:26 AM	#12
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Brad, I have to say you should take a camera with you to what ever post house you try and make the dubs. As for your other responses they have so little detail it is hard to figure out what is happening. Does the DVCAM deck record anything from the camera? Does it work in DV? In any setting? Can't tell what you have tried and what failed. There are some settings in the XLH! playback which you should check. Playback HDV and Downconvert are 2 seperate menu items. Do you have another DV deck and tape which you can confirm the DSR-1500A works the way you want it to with the Canon? As for Chris's suggestion about 24F it would be very interesting to know that the HDV 24F downconvert to DV is not DV according to the DSR-1500A. My guess is that this is not the case. He is correct though that you are trying to record a 24f signal on a 59.97 system so the downconvert has to be adding/blending frames to the signal to make it conform to regular DV. I think the issue is related to the 1500A which means you should be cursing Sony almost as much as Canon. One of the problems with just being creative in a technical field is you can end up with issues which are not solvable with the gear you have at your disposal. This is why most people do tests and spend a lot of time figuring out best practices so they know it works. You are in that process now whether you like it or not. Once you figure out how to use it you won't spend much time on this the next time.

March 26th, 2006, 01:58 PM	#13
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Downconvert? Perhaps I have been doing the wrong thing with downconvert. I go into the H1's menu and select the AV->DV toggle. Below it is another item that is greyed out, and cannot be switched in any way called HD Down-Conv--. I assumed that AV->DV was the right selection. As for how I have been shooting, I am going 24F onto a Sony HDV tape. As for what I've tried and failed, every suggestion put up here. Tried switching DSR from DVCAM to DV. Nothing. I don't have another deck, so no more attempts can be made.

March 26th, 2006, 02:48 PM	#14
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	AV-->DV is for converting SVideo or composite NTSC to DV. It's probably greyed out because you have AV DV toggled on.

March 26th, 2006, 03:08 PM	#15
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	It Works! Hallelujuah! I reset the playback standard to HDV, and set the downconvert to DV, presto my DSR-1500A started an AV/TC dub without any fuss! I figured out what was messing me up, I already had the Firewire plug inserted into the H1. Once you do that, it locks the playback standards. You should have seen my face when I unplugged the cord, and the previously locked menu items popped open.Thanks to Daniel, Barlow, and the other guys who listened to me bitch and moan all weekend. Love this camera.