The big debate... at DVinfo.net

Ashley Hosking · March 21st, 2006, 08:08 AM

Hi everyone, sorry I have been gone for a few months been busy with a few projects.

Anyway on to the topic... As many of you may or may not know I am a young inspired filmmaker that started his career in live broadcast television production at the age of twelve! I am now eighteen and have enough saved up for a canon XLH1 (after slaving away for 6 months on shift work in a sydney based commercial tv station) My dreams and goals are digital cinema production and basicly indie film (but done properly for an international market, unlike most of the indie films that have been made already here in australia that only get directed towards an australian audience) So really I am in no rush to go out and buy a camera yet as I have heaps of spare time to learn more and save more - My heart was set on the Canon XLH1 for its quality and form, but after reading so many threads about issues and problems. Plus the problems I have faced with it myself while using a demo XLH1 e.g - The zoom on the 20x is WAY to slow, but i still love the camera and maybe waiting for a manuel HD to be an option will be the key. While browsing I come across a few threads on issues - Mainly dead pixel related... I'm sure I would find a few more if I searched more through the topics.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62696

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62669

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62467

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=59243

For those that might be thinking it no I am not degrading this camera or any other camera, I honestly think the Canon XLH1 is a wonderful camera but I believe with any first gen product their will be problems with it (I have a first gen titanium G4 Powerbook that was a lemon buts thats another story) What I am basicly getting at and would like to hear from the owners of the XLH1. Is the problem with Dead Pixels as bad as it seems? I am just finding way to many topics regarding dead pixels ok yes some are in the VF but some are on the CCD as well and thats not good.. that puts me off buying this camera a lot! if suddenly I'll be shooting and half way though dead pixels start creeping in! Than its all over.

I would greatly appreciate honest opinions from owners that have had problems with the XLH1 and how Canon support treated you, Of cause opinions from owners of the XLH1 that have had none or very minimal problems would also be useful.

At the end of the day I cannot afford to buy a $13.999 AUD camera and find out it's a lemon and than get treated badly by Canon Australia and given a replacement that is damaged or dirty but works fine like most of the threads talking about replacements issued by canon for defective ones.

I am prepared to wait (even though I do want my camera now) if waiting is a better option.

Thankyou for your time, I look forward to your replies *Smiles*
Ashley Hosking

John Cordell · March 21st, 2006, 10:10 AM

I've had my H1 for about a month now. No bad pixels on CCD or viewfinder. Not sure if this poll will help you much, but you now have a sample of 1!

Boyd Ostroff · March 21st, 2006, 10:24 AM

My only thought - and this is not related to issues with the H1 - is that this is a really expensive camera for someone of your age. That is not meant in a negative way at all - I would glady pay $10,000 and give up all my cameras to be 18 again ;-)

But with your career just beginning, you're going to buy a number of cameras. So why not start out with something a little less expensive, which leaves more money left for accessories, computers, etc? Show the world what you can do with that camera, and a few years down the road you will have more - and better - options to choose from in the $10,000 price range.

Just some food for thought...

Steve Rosen · March 21st, 2006, 10:40 AM

Boyd may be right, but don't go by me because I bought a new $6000 Eclair NPR while still in film school in the '60s... The difference is that "state-of-the-art" didn't change every six months the way it does now.. Maybe get a good used XL2, learn the idiosyncrasies of the camera..

If you do decide to get an H1, and I completely understand why you might want to do that, get it from a solid reputable dealer, not a "box store".. The price difference will be minimal, you'll be sure to not have a grey camera, and you'll have someone knowledgable to talk to.

FYI.. Bought my H1 from ZGC in December, no pixle problems...

Christopher Glaeser · March 21st, 2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

... this is a really expensive camera ...

Not only is the camera expensive, but HD is expensive. After purchasing the camera, you'll want a multiprocessor computer with RAID, HD monitor, high-end software, etc. CineForm Aspect HD is $500, Procoder is $500, ... when the market decides on a HD DVD format, you'll need that, ... and so it adds up. If you decide to get the XL H1, be sure and budget for everything.

Here's another way to look at this decision. Let's suppose your budget is $12,000. Could you make better indie films with:

1) XL2 and $8,000 to spend on a computer, software, lights, accessories

2) XL H1 and $4,000 to spend on an HD computer, HD software, lights, accessories

Best,
Christopher

A. J. deLange · March 21st, 2006, 01:17 PM

I'll take the same deal as Boyd. That said I've no dead pixels in either VF or CCD block. Note that a dead pixel in the VF is specifically excluded from warranty (according to the manual furnished to us in the US). There is no such exclusion mentioned for the CCDs.

Robert Sanders · March 21st, 2006, 02:55 PM

I recently just bought an H1. No dead pixels. Build quality is exceptional.

I wonder if people are forgetting to switch the lever on the zoom handle so that the rocker is touch sensitive. I find when it's switched on and I depress the zoom rocker hard it zooms very fast.

Unless, of course, you're looking for Kung-Fu action style zooming. Then you'll definitely need a manual lens.

Ashley Hosking · March 21st, 2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

My only thought - and this is not related to issues with the H1 - is that this is a really expensive camera for someone of your age. That is not meant in a negative way at all - I would glady pay $10,000 and give up all my cameras to be 18 again ;-)

But with your career just beginning, you're going to buy a number of cameras. So why not start out with something a little less expensive, which leaves more money left for accessories, computers, etc? Show the world what you can do with that camera, and a few years down the road you will have more - and better - options to choose from in the $10,000 price range.

Just some food for thought...

Hi Boyd, thanks for your input and yes very valid points, however I have a family and a company supporting me in various ways including financially, I just want to have my own camera thats not tied to someone else. Edit suite, decks, software, etc wont be a problem, myself and various other people I am working with are putting HD at the low end of our scale with 4K+ at the top end... Japan has already made 4K their HD standard so why not plan to go for the future.

Also I had a very good head start in this industry... I did one year of part time TV and Media studies at College and passed it with "H.D" grades at the age of 14 whilst attending normal school!

I have access to various DV cameras including: PD150's, XL1's, XL2's, etc and they are good cameras but the quality I am looking for is not there and I doubt I will find what I am looking for in a DV/DVCAM camera.

I may of made a mistake by posting my age above - I've found people treat me very differently when they know my age but that does not in any way reflect on any of you guys and I do appreciate your input. *smile*

Thanks again for your time.

PS - Boyd, I am sure you are still 18 at heart ;)

Kind regards,
Ashley Hosking

Daniel Epstein · March 21st, 2006, 09:33 PM

Unless you have a project you need/want it for in the next month don't buy it before NAB. I took delivery my camera 4 months before NAB so I knew I could use it between now and the next big thing. We are getting very close to when all the new products we will be lusting for are announced. Some of them are even delivered by May or June. I don't think Canon will come out with anything I would trade my XLH1 for but someone might come up with the correct combination to make me recommend something else to someone in your situation.

Ashley Hosking · March 21st, 2006, 10:59 PM

Daniel you've hit the nail on the head! I was only just discussing that with a colleague half an hour ago and you have confirmed it for me. Thankyou

Also we are still to see what RED really has to offer and from what Jim has been saying NAB should reveal it all.

March 21st, 2006, 08:08 AM	#1
Ashley Hosking Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	The big debate... Hi everyone, sorry I have been gone for a few months been busy with a few projects. Anyway on to the topic... As many of you may or may not know I am a young inspired filmmaker that started his career in live broadcast television production at the age of twelve! I am now eighteen and have enough saved up for a canon XLH1 (after slaving away for 6 months on shift work in a sydney based commercial tv station) My dreams and goals are digital cinema production and basicly indie film (but done properly for an international market, unlike most of the indie films that have been made already here in australia that only get directed towards an australian audience) So really I am in no rush to go out and buy a camera yet as I have heaps of spare time to learn more and save more - My heart was set on the Canon XLH1 for its quality and form, but after reading so many threads about issues and problems. Plus the problems I have faced with it myself while using a demo XLH1 e.g - The zoom on the 20x is WAY to slow, but i still love the camera and maybe waiting for a manuel HD to be an option will be the key. While browsing I come across a few threads on issues - Mainly dead pixel related... I'm sure I would find a few more if I searched more through the topics. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62696 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62669 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62467 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=59243 For those that might be thinking it no I am not degrading this camera or any other camera, I honestly think the Canon XLH1 is a wonderful camera but I believe with any first gen product their will be problems with it (I have a first gen titanium G4 Powerbook that was a lemon buts thats another story) What I am basicly getting at and would like to hear from the owners of the XLH1. Is the problem with Dead Pixels as bad as it seems? I am just finding way to many topics regarding dead pixels ok yes some are in the VF but some are on the CCD as well and thats not good.. that puts me off buying this camera a lot! if suddenly I'll be shooting and half way though dead pixels start creeping in! Than its all over. I would greatly appreciate honest opinions from owners that have had problems with the XLH1 and how Canon support treated you, Of cause opinions from owners of the XLH1 that have had none or very minimal problems would also be useful. At the end of the day I cannot afford to buy a $13.999 AUD camera and find out it's a lemon and than get treated badly by Canon Australia and given a replacement that is damaged or dirty but works fine like most of the threads talking about replacements issued by canon for defective ones. I am prepared to wait (even though I do want my camera now) if waiting is a better option. Thankyou for your time, I look forward to your replies Smiles Ashley Hosking __________________ "If we build RED they will come"

March 21st, 2006, 02:55 PM	#7
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	I recently just bought an H1. No dead pixels. Build quality is exceptional. I wonder if people are forgetting to switch the lever on the zoom handle so that the rocker is touch sensitive. I find when it's switched on and I depress the zoom rocker hard it zooms very fast. Unless, of course, you're looking for Kung-Fu action style zooming. Then you'll definitely need a manual lens. __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 21st, 2006, 10:59 PM	#10
Ashley Hosking Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	Daniel you've hit the nail on the head! I was only just discussing that with a colleague half an hour ago and you have confirmed it for me. Thankyou Also we are still to see what RED really has to offer and from what Jim has been saying NAB should reveal it all. __________________ "If we build RED they will come"

March 21st, 2006, 10:10 AM	#2
John Cordell Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 69	I've had my H1 for about a month now. No bad pixels on CCD or viewfinder. Not sure if this poll will help you much, but you now have a sample of 1!

March 21st, 2006, 10:24 AM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	My only thought - and this is not related to issues with the H1 - is that this is a really expensive camera for someone of your age. That is not meant in a negative way at all - I would glady pay $10,000 and give up all my cameras to be 18 again ;-) But with your career just beginning, you're going to buy a number of cameras. So why not start out with something a little less expensive, which leaves more money left for accessories, computers, etc? Show the world what you can do with that camera, and a few years down the road you will have more - and better - options to choose from in the $10,000 price range. Just some food for thought...

March 21st, 2006, 10:40 AM	#4
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Boyd may be right, but don't go by me because I bought a new $6000 Eclair NPR while still in film school in the '60s... The difference is that "state-of-the-art" didn't change every six months the way it does now.. Maybe get a good used XL2, learn the idiosyncrasies of the camera.. If you do decide to get an H1, and I completely understand why you might want to do that, get it from a solid reputable dealer, not a "box store".. The price difference will be minimal, you'll be sure to not have a grey camera, and you'll have someone knowledgable to talk to. FYI.. Bought my H1 from ZGC in December, no pixle problems...

March 21st, 2006, 01:17 PM	#6
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	I'll take the same deal as Boyd. That said I've no dead pixels in either VF or CCD block. Note that a dead pixel in the VF is specifically excluded from warranty (according to the manual furnished to us in the US). There is no such exclusion mentioned for the CCDs.

March 21st, 2006, 09:33 PM	#9
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Unless you have a project you need/want it for in the next month don't buy it before NAB. I took delivery my camera 4 months before NAB so I knew I could use it between now and the next big thing. We are getting very close to when all the new products we will be lusting for are announced. Some of them are even delivered by May or June. I don't think Canon will come out with anything I would trade my XLH1 for but someone might come up with the correct combination to make me recommend something else to someone in your situation.