Timecode Canon Connection at DVinfo.net

Brad Schreiber · March 20th, 2006, 01:41 PM

I have read that the XLH1 has a Timecode out plug. I was wondering if that could be used to slave a deck to the code coming from a Canon tape. My DSR-1500A has a Timecode plug itself. I'm sorry if this question seems a bit greenhorn, but my connection experience begins and ends with Firewire. I have heard time and again how unrleiable HDV timecode is, I thought this might give it a helping hand.

Barlow Elton · March 20th, 2006, 01:58 PM

Should work fine. I know it works going analog or SDI into a Panasonic SD93 DVCPRO 50 deck.

Daniel Epstein · March 20th, 2006, 02:21 PM

Brad,
I think the HDV timecode is unreliable for digitizing through firewire connections and controllers.
My experience with FCP 5 was interesting. If I picked an in point and an outpoint on the fly and then went to digitize the clip it often wasn't found. If I put the machine to full stop and set the in point and then the same for the out it was found more often. I have heard of similar problems for people with the Sony HDV. This is why Capture now seems to be preferred.
My guess is you won't have any problems using the dubs but don't be surprised if you can't get the original HDV to line up if you end up going back to it.
I think the best method at this points is to go in full quality to your system and back up the data on the computer so you don't have to go back to the tape again.

Brad Schreiber · March 20th, 2006, 03:00 PM

What kind of cables do I need to pull this off? The timecode cable and SDI, I'm not sure what works for this?

Steve Rosen · March 20th, 2006, 03:12 PM

Interesting... I've been capturing and editing for a little over a week constantly (that's why I've been posting here more often - stuck at at computer all day and looking for excuses to stop my brain)..

I've been logging and batch-capturing in FCP using the HDV Capture Preset with no problem at all... In fact, I've gone back and recaptured several clips that I originally imported as SD Squeeze, and changed them to HDV.. copied back in perfect sync with the timeline... (I'm doing two shows at once, one in SD and one in HDV and forget which one I'm on sometimes)...

I'm using the Sony HVR-M10 deck...

A. J. deLange · March 20th, 2006, 04:35 PM

I don't think there is anything wrong with HD time code. I think the problem is with applications that don't read it properly. I have the same problem with FCP - it can't find the beginnings of specified clips but if you use "Capture Now" or HDxDV the time code does get read properly over Fire Wire.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want to do with the deck but the XL-H1 does have LTC output in two places. One is the BNC in the jack pack and the other is through the LANC connector. Many devices will "resolve" to LTC but for sample accurate audio sync and perfect video sync a video signal needs to be supplied as well. The composite video out from the XL-H1 will serve for this.

The BNC connection requires a cable with BNC on one end and whatever your deck wants for LTC on the other - probably BNC but can be XLR. The LANC connection requires a special adapter.

Warning: I've never actually locked a deck to the XL-H1

Daniel Epstein · March 20th, 2006, 05:28 PM

Steve,
Glad to hear the deck is working for you. I was using HDV 30F and 24F so I had to use the XLH1. It would be interesting if this is a deck issue. Maybe this is an FCP issue with the Canon. I am not sure which deck the post house I referred to was using but I suspect it was the camera. Maybe FCP 6 will clear up some of these issues.
I wonder if anyone has any experience with other edit systems?
I still am suspicious though that Mpeg2 streams are going to give you interesting issues since the GOP is needed for some of the frames. If I ask for a frame which has a timecode number but is not an I frame what data does the transfer get on a redigitize? I can see how this works once the footage is in the computer but how does it know to redigitize to the nearest I frame? Will it automatically add the appropriate frames to get to an I frame? I could see a lot of code needing to be written to cover this in the capture modules.
This is why I think of HDV as a good acquisition format but maybe not as easy a workflow as DV.

March 20th, 2006, 01:41 PM	#1
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Timecode Canon Connection I have read that the XLH1 has a Timecode out plug. I was wondering if that could be used to slave a deck to the code coming from a Canon tape. My DSR-1500A has a Timecode plug itself. I'm sorry if this question seems a bit greenhorn, but my connection experience begins and ends with Firewire. I have heard time and again how unrleiable HDV timecode is, I thought this might give it a helping hand.

March 20th, 2006, 03:00 PM	#4
Brad Schreiber Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 96	Cables I need? What kind of cables do I need to pull this off? The timecode cable and SDI, I'm not sure what works for this?

March 20th, 2006, 01:58 PM	#2
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Should work fine. I know it works going analog or SDI into a Panasonic SD93 DVCPRO 50 deck.

March 20th, 2006, 02:21 PM	#3
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Brad, I think the HDV timecode is unreliable for digitizing through firewire connections and controllers. My experience with FCP 5 was interesting. If I picked an in point and an outpoint on the fly and then went to digitize the clip it often wasn't found. If I put the machine to full stop and set the in point and then the same for the out it was found more often. I have heard of similar problems for people with the Sony HDV. This is why Capture now seems to be preferred. My guess is you won't have any problems using the dubs but don't be surprised if you can't get the original HDV to line up if you end up going back to it. I think the best method at this points is to go in full quality to your system and back up the data on the computer so you don't have to go back to the tape again.

March 20th, 2006, 03:12 PM	#5
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Interesting... I've been capturing and editing for a little over a week constantly (that's why I've been posting here more often - stuck at at computer all day and looking for excuses to stop my brain).. I've been logging and batch-capturing in FCP using the HDV Capture Preset with no problem at all... In fact, I've gone back and recaptured several clips that I originally imported as SD Squeeze, and changed them to HDV.. copied back in perfect sync with the timeline... (I'm doing two shows at once, one in SD and one in HDV and forget which one I'm on sometimes)... I'm using the Sony HVR-M10 deck...

March 20th, 2006, 04:35 PM	#6
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	I don't think there is anything wrong with HD time code. I think the problem is with applications that don't read it properly. I have the same problem with FCP - it can't find the beginnings of specified clips but if you use "Capture Now" or HDxDV the time code does get read properly over Fire Wire. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want to do with the deck but the XL-H1 does have LTC output in two places. One is the BNC in the jack pack and the other is through the LANC connector. Many devices will "resolve" to LTC but for sample accurate audio sync and perfect video sync a video signal needs to be supplied as well. The composite video out from the XL-H1 will serve for this. The BNC connection requires a cable with BNC on one end and whatever your deck wants for LTC on the other - probably BNC but can be XLR. The LANC connection requires a special adapter. Warning: I've never actually locked a deck to the XL-H1

March 20th, 2006, 05:28 PM	#7
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Steve, Glad to hear the deck is working for you. I was using HDV 30F and 24F so I had to use the XLH1. It would be interesting if this is a deck issue. Maybe this is an FCP issue with the Canon. I am not sure which deck the post house I referred to was using but I suspect it was the camera. Maybe FCP 6 will clear up some of these issues. I wonder if anyone has any experience with other edit systems? I still am suspicious though that Mpeg2 streams are going to give you interesting issues since the GOP is needed for some of the frames. If I ask for a frame which has a timecode number but is not an I frame what data does the transfer get on a redigitize? I can see how this works once the footage is in the computer but how does it know to redigitize to the nearest I frame? Will it automatically add the appropriate frames to get to an I frame? I could see a lot of code needing to be written to cover this in the capture modules. This is why I think of HDV as a good acquisition format but maybe not as easy a workflow as DV.