Wide Angle Converter for XLH1? at DVinfo.net

Daniel Epstein · March 16th, 2006, 04:54 PM

Has anyone tried out the 16x9 Wide Converter www.16x9inc.com for the XLH1? They are having a special with the Chrosziel Smart Shade and also offer it seperately. So far I have been holding off buying a Wide Angle converter since I haven't liked any of the standard def ones in HDV. Useable but not great. I have also been talking to Century Optics and expect they will have some new product to announce soon. Being in NY I often need wide lenses to work in the small spaces I work in.

John Benton · March 16th, 2006, 08:14 PM

Daniel,
I got the adapter recently, after testing it, and am quite happy with it.
It has more curvature than others, which I like.

BUT Things get a bit blurry towards the outskirts of the frame.
There is also Chromatic abberation (sp?) - blue and red borders where highly lit areas meet darker ones, when I am fully wide. This is a Canon lens issue but I think it's increased with this adapter.
I would suggest going to Abel and testing it against the Century.
There should be more solutions coming in the next few months, so I think it may be worth it to wait.

For me it is very nice to have right now - I love the wider shot. and it has the increased curvature I crave when wide. I would post shots, but Con Ed just tore a house down on my block and I have no phone (ie DSL)
I am piggybacking on a very thin wireless connection right now
send me an email if you have further questions or wanna check it out in person,

John

Daniel Epstein · March 17th, 2006, 10:41 AM

John,
Thanks for the review. I hate to say it until I completely check it out but it sounds similar to the optical errors I was seeing with the Century adapter made for the XL2 used on the XLH1. I am waiting for a contact I have at Canon to see if they have any thoughts. Of course real world results are the key here so if you like it that is a big plus.

Dan

Steve Rosen · March 17th, 2006, 04:56 PM

Fact is, as has been stated numerous times here before, there needs to be a high quality wide angle lens for this camera. I, too, would like a fixed focal length like a 3mm - I like using a 10mm on my 16mm Aaton, makes the camera small and light and there's enough depth of field to allow in and out physical movement without focusing. That won't happen though, because I'm sure Canon believes they'd never sell enough of them.

So they'll give us a zoom... Please let it be a manual focus short zoom, like a 10x. The lens would be lighter, and because it would require fewer elements, it would be much more likely to be optically superior at wide angle, which is what we want it for.

Since most, currently all, H1 owners will already have a 20x, we really don't need the long end of the lens. 3x30 would be a real asset. Steve Rosen

Robert Sanders · March 17th, 2006, 06:46 PM

I absolutely 100% agree with Steve here. I don't need zoom on my wide, just a great 3-3.5mm wide angle.

Pretty please, Canon. With sugar on top!

Steve Rosen · March 18th, 2006, 09:28 AM

Yeah, but let's hope Canon leaves some of the sugar off.. like OIS - stupid, and totally unneeded on a wide angle. Keep it light and focus on the optics, not the bells and whistles... I've already got the money set aside, so belly up to the bar Canon... Steve Rosen

Daniel Epstein · March 18th, 2006, 10:05 AM

I don't think of the wide angle adapter as a replacement for a wide angle lens either. I do think it puts the 20X into a more useful range for alot of the shooting I do. It would be nice to have a 13x Wide angle manual lens from Canon. As for primes then we might as well look at some of the 35mm lens adapters.
What I don't want is to have to buy 3 lenses just to cover the normal work I want to do with the camera.

Steve Rosen · March 18th, 2006, 11:14 AM

I have 7 lenses for my super16mm Aaton, 3 of them are zooms of varying weight and maximum aperature, the others are primes. It is very useful to have lens options.

The disadvantage with video cameras has been the issue of having to reset the back focus every time you remove and replace a lens - not an easy thing to do when working quickly - or in an environment that doesn't allow precise focusing with the lens wide open.

The nice thing about the H1 is that it "remembers" the back-focus setting for various lenses - I don't know how many, but I'm sure at least 2 or 3. That means you can quickly changes lenses, go the menu and ask the camera to optimize the lens. I've tried it several times when I've switched to the 16X manual (now sold) and back to the 20X (it doesn't remember the 16x, because of the manual nature of the lens - but when I've gone back to the 20, it dials it right in).

What I hope, and it may just be wishful thinking, is that Canon will address the needs of professionals by providing a high quality t1.4 wide-angle short zoom with manual focus that will respond to auto back-focus memory... Steve Rosen

Robert Sanders · March 18th, 2006, 08:36 PM

That would be ideal for my purposes as well.

Daniel Epstein · March 19th, 2006, 04:27 PM

By the way I can't imagine that Canon wouldn't make the new lenses compatible with the back focus feature on the XLH1. It is their camera after all and these would be lenses designed to use with it. Of course they might come out with one which is backwards compatible for the XL2 series as well.
Somehow I think they are going to come out with a lens which uses the same iris,ND protocol, zoom as the 20X with a shorter wider lens and better manual focus. If they just come up with the identical lenses as the SD versions I will be disappointed. Not terribly surprised....

Steve Rosen · March 19th, 2006, 06:27 PM

They will provide the auto back-focus feature as long as it's an auto focus lens..

What I hope is that it will be a manual lens with auto back-focus - don't know if it's even possible...

John Benton · March 20th, 2006, 12:38 PM

I have done some tests with the 16x9 adapter
and there is a lot (!) of abberation - (blue to the left and red to the right borders between intense darks and lights)
especially around the edges, where it also looses focus.
(This is using it Pulled wide all the way out, which is what we want)

That being said, I don't think I will return it, under controlled conditions, it is nice to have in my arsenal.
I am still hoping there is a wide angle solution from Canon.

What I hope for too is for a good 35 adapter and relay lens.(although they will no doubt add grain and take away light...)

or
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=63285

Robert Sanders · March 20th, 2006, 01:20 PM

$635 is a lot of money or a wide-angle solution with iffy results. Damn.

John Benton · March 20th, 2006, 02:46 PM

Actually Robert,
I am going to see if I can still return it to B&H.

Robert Sanders · March 20th, 2006, 04:05 PM

Do you think Century Optics is a better solution?

March 16th, 2006, 04:54 PM	#1
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Wide Angle Converter for XLH1? Has anyone tried out the 16x9 Wide Converter www.16x9inc.com for the XLH1? They are having a special with the Chrosziel Smart Shade and also offer it seperately. So far I have been holding off buying a Wide Angle converter since I haven't liked any of the standard def ones in HDV. Useable but not great. I have also been talking to Century Optics and expect they will have some new product to announce soon. Being in NY I often need wide lenses to work in the small spaces I work in.

March 17th, 2006, 06:46 PM	#5
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	I absolutely 100% agree with Steve here. I don't need zoom on my wide, just a great 3-3.5mm wide angle. Pretty please, Canon. With sugar on top! __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 18th, 2006, 08:36 PM	#9
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	That would be ideal for my purposes as well. __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 20th, 2006, 01:20 PM	#13
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	$635 is a lot of money or a wide-angle solution with iffy results. Damn. __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 20th, 2006, 04:05 PM	#15
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	Do you think Century Optics is a better solution? __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 16th, 2006, 08:14 PM	#2
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	Daniel, I got the adapter recently, after testing it, and am quite happy with it. It has more curvature than others, which I like. BUT Things get a bit blurry towards the outskirts of the frame. There is also Chromatic abberation (sp?) - blue and red borders where highly lit areas meet darker ones, when I am fully wide. This is a Canon lens issue but I think it's increased with this adapter. I would suggest going to Abel and testing it against the Century. There should be more solutions coming in the next few months, so I think it may be worth it to wait. For me it is very nice to have right now - I love the wider shot. and it has the increased curvature I crave when wide. I would post shots, but Con Ed just tore a house down on my block and I have no phone (ie DSL) I am piggybacking on a very thin wireless connection right now send me an email if you have further questions or wanna check it out in person, John

March 17th, 2006, 10:41 AM	#3
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	John, Thanks for the review. I hate to say it until I completely check it out but it sounds similar to the optical errors I was seeing with the Century adapter made for the XL2 used on the XLH1. I am waiting for a contact I have at Canon to see if they have any thoughts. Of course real world results are the key here so if you like it that is a big plus. Dan

March 17th, 2006, 04:56 PM	#4
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Fact is, as has been stated numerous times here before, there needs to be a high quality wide angle lens for this camera. I, too, would like a fixed focal length like a 3mm - I like using a 10mm on my 16mm Aaton, makes the camera small and light and there's enough depth of field to allow in and out physical movement without focusing. That won't happen though, because I'm sure Canon believes they'd never sell enough of them. So they'll give us a zoom... Please let it be a manual focus short zoom, like a 10x. The lens would be lighter, and because it would require fewer elements, it would be much more likely to be optically superior at wide angle, which is what we want it for. Since most, currently all, H1 owners will already have a 20x, we really don't need the long end of the lens. 3x30 would be a real asset. Steve Rosen

March 18th, 2006, 09:28 AM	#6
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Yeah, but let's hope Canon leaves some of the sugar off.. like OIS - stupid, and totally unneeded on a wide angle. Keep it light and focus on the optics, not the bells and whistles... I've already got the money set aside, so belly up to the bar Canon... Steve Rosen

March 18th, 2006, 10:05 AM	#7
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	I don't think of the wide angle adapter as a replacement for a wide angle lens either. I do think it puts the 20X into a more useful range for alot of the shooting I do. It would be nice to have a 13x Wide angle manual lens from Canon. As for primes then we might as well look at some of the 35mm lens adapters. What I don't want is to have to buy 3 lenses just to cover the normal work I want to do with the camera.

March 18th, 2006, 11:14 AM	#8
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	I have 7 lenses for my super16mm Aaton, 3 of them are zooms of varying weight and maximum aperature, the others are primes. It is very useful to have lens options. The disadvantage with video cameras has been the issue of having to reset the back focus every time you remove and replace a lens - not an easy thing to do when working quickly - or in an environment that doesn't allow precise focusing with the lens wide open. The nice thing about the H1 is that it "remembers" the back-focus setting for various lenses - I don't know how many, but I'm sure at least 2 or 3. That means you can quickly changes lenses, go the menu and ask the camera to optimize the lens. I've tried it several times when I've switched to the 16X manual (now sold) and back to the 20X (it doesn't remember the 16x, because of the manual nature of the lens - but when I've gone back to the 20, it dials it right in). What I hope, and it may just be wishful thinking, is that Canon will address the needs of professionals by providing a high quality t1.4 wide-angle short zoom with manual focus that will respond to auto back-focus memory... Steve Rosen

March 19th, 2006, 04:27 PM	#10
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	By the way I can't imagine that Canon wouldn't make the new lenses compatible with the back focus feature on the XLH1. It is their camera after all and these would be lenses designed to use with it. Of course they might come out with one which is backwards compatible for the XL2 series as well. Somehow I think they are going to come out with a lens which uses the same iris,ND protocol, zoom as the 20X with a shorter wider lens and better manual focus. If they just come up with the identical lenses as the SD versions I will be disappointed. Not terribly surprised....

March 19th, 2006, 06:27 PM	#11
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	They will provide the auto back-focus feature as long as it's an auto focus lens.. What I hope is that it will be a manual lens with auto back-focus - don't know if it's even possible...

March 20th, 2006, 12:38 PM	#12
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	I have done some tests with the 16x9 adapter and there is a lot (!) of abberation - (blue to the left and red to the right borders between intense darks and lights) especially around the edges, where it also looses focus. (This is using it Pulled wide all the way out, which is what we want) That being said, I don't think I will return it, under controlled conditions, it is nice to have in my arsenal. I am still hoping there is a wide angle solution from Canon. What I hope for too is for a good 35 adapter and relay lens.(although they will no doubt add grain and take away light...) or http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=63285

March 20th, 2006, 02:46 PM	#14
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	Actually Robert, I am going to see if I can still return it to B&H.