Uncompressed XL H1 footage via HD-SDI to DVCPROHD VTR?

Jonas Nystrom · March 29th, 2006, 03:05 AM

Hilarious feature (or bagatelle)! Great fun!

Daniel Epstein · March 29th, 2006, 11:23 AM

Does the Panasonic deck record the 1080 24F signal coming in through SDI as 1080 24F or does it convert it to 720P 24F. I realized that now that Panasonic does both I wasn't sure if this conversion takes place? When you edit the footage if it stays 1080 is it as easy to edit as the 720?

Gary McClurg · March 29th, 2006, 12:59 PM

I thought there was a Panny deck that will do the upconvert to 1080...

Daniel Epstein · March 29th, 2006, 05:32 PM

Gary,
Let me clarify.
I am asking what the Panny deck records. XLH1 HDV is 1080 60i, 30, 24F. Varicam is 720 60-24P. When the Panny deck sees the HD SDI signal from Canon it is 1080. Does the deck record it as 1080 or does it convert it to 720? Does the tape for all intents and purposes act like it was recorded from a Varicam?
Since Panasonic is now making some HD cameras with 1080 signals have the decks caught up so they can record 1080?

Barry Green · March 29th, 2006, 05:55 PM

The deck can record either 1080 or 720.

In the case of the XLH1, it's outputting a 1080/60i signal, with 24F embedded in 60i. That's what the deck would record.

Daniel Epstein · March 29th, 2006, 07:33 PM

Barry,
Thanks that is what I was thinking. So this method doesn't help you to edit in DVCPRO 100HD. It does give you a better recording quality than HDV.

Barry Green · March 29th, 2006, 07:58 PM

Well... I mean, it does help you edit, if you're using FCP for example. FCP can connect via firewire to that deck and import the footage and work on it in realtime. It's a DVCPRO-HD deck, so the format it records is the same as what FCP (and Avid and Canopus) edit natively. Is that what you meant?

Gary McClurg · March 29th, 2006, 08:22 PM

Thanks Barry...

I thought that the deck out puted 1080 so I was hoping it would record it as well... cool...

Anyone have a clue how much the deck costs...

Barry Green · March 29th, 2006, 09:13 PM

Base MSRP is around $21,000, but you'd also want the firewire and HD-SDI cards, so you're looking at around $30,000 or so.

Gary McClurg · March 29th, 2006, 09:44 PM

Thanks... but just a little bit out of my price range right now...

Daniel Epstein · March 30th, 2006, 09:04 PM

Barry,
Thanks for the info. I was actually wondering about Final Cut handling the 1080 signal coming down the firewire. I know FCP can handle the 720 but wasn't sure how it would deal with the 1080 in realtime. Obviously a Kona Card set up.
A client was asking about recording with this method and I realized how murky the actual details were.

Barlow Elton · March 31st, 2006, 01:51 AM

Daniel,

I record HDV to SDI or straight live camera to SDI all the time, and it works very very well. With a Kona card or Decklink, the SDI signal just shows up in your capture window, provided you're using the proper capture settings. You can capture 1080i 100mbs DVCproHD and edit easily with a G5. Works quite well. If you want a true 1080p timeline, you have to extract the 3:2 pulldown from the DVCproHD clips in Cinema Tools, but it does work if you're willing to go the extra mile.

I edit H1 material almost exclusively in DVCProHD or PhotoJPEG formats. No problems at all, and it doesn't require a RAID.

Barry Green · March 31st, 2006, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Epstein

I know FCP can handle the 720 but wasn't sure how it would deal with the 1080 in realtime. Obviously a Kona Card set up.

I can run multiple streams of 1080/60i DVCPRO-HD on my lowly G5 dual 2.0, realtime, from the internal hard disk. You don't need a Kona or anything to do that, firewire is all you need to import the footage. And with FCP 5.1 they've added support for 1080/24pA too.

If you want to see the output on a separate monitor (other than the digital cinema desktop preview) you may need the Kona for that. But for editing, any decently-powerful Mac should be able to handle it.

Brian Langeman · October 25th, 2006, 02:34 PM

Witch Panasonic tape deck are we talking about here? Would the Panasonic AJ-SD2551394SDI DVCPRO Digital Video Cassette Recorder work for recording it, or would it only be useable for SD footage?

Vincent Rozenberg · October 25th, 2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Langeman

Witch Panasonic tape deck are we talking about here? Would the Panasonic AJ-SD2551394SDI DVCPRO Digital Video Cassette Recorder work for recording it, or would it only be useable for SD footage?

Yep, only SD. There talking about these decks:

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...tGroupId=15767

March 29th, 2006, 03:05 AM	#16
Jonas Nystrom Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 306	yeah! Hilarious feature (or bagatelle)! Great fun! __________________ Jonas Nyström, DoP :: HOT SHOT® SWEDEN :: www.hotshot.nu :: RED #1567, RED 18-50mm T3 :: XL A1, Letus Extreme :: XL H1, 20X & 6X lens (for sale) :: www.vimeo.com/nystrom

March 31st, 2006, 01:51 AM	#27
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Daniel, I record HDV to SDI or straight live camera to SDI all the time, and it works very very well. With a Kona card or Decklink, the SDI signal just shows up in your capture window, provided you're using the proper capture settings. You can capture 1080i 100mbs DVCproHD and edit easily with a G5. Works quite well. If you want a true 1080p timeline, you have to extract the 3:2 pulldown from the DVCproHD clips in Cinema Tools, but it does work if you're willing to go the extra mile. I edit H1 material almost exclusively in DVCProHD or PhotoJPEG formats. No problems at all, and it doesn't require a RAID. Last edited by Barlow Elton; March 31st, 2006 at 02:44 AM.

March 29th, 2006, 11:23 AM	#17
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Does the Panasonic deck record the 1080 24F signal coming in through SDI as 1080 24F or does it convert it to 720P 24F. I realized that now that Panasonic does both I wasn't sure if this conversion takes place? When you edit the footage if it stays 1080 is it as easy to edit as the 720?

March 29th, 2006, 12:59 PM	#18
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	I thought there was a Panny deck that will do the upconvert to 1080...

March 29th, 2006, 05:32 PM	#19
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Gary, Let me clarify. I am asking what the Panny deck records. XLH1 HDV is 1080 60i, 30, 24F. Varicam is 720 60-24P. When the Panny deck sees the HD SDI signal from Canon it is 1080. Does the deck record it as 1080 or does it convert it to 720? Does the tape for all intents and purposes act like it was recorded from a Varicam? Since Panasonic is now making some HD cameras with 1080 signals have the decks caught up so they can record 1080?

March 29th, 2006, 05:55 PM	#20
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The deck can record either 1080 or 720. In the case of the XLH1, it's outputting a 1080/60i signal, with 24F embedded in 60i. That's what the deck would record.

March 29th, 2006, 07:33 PM	#21
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Barry, Thanks that is what I was thinking. So this method doesn't help you to edit in DVCPRO 100HD. It does give you a better recording quality than HDV.

March 29th, 2006, 07:58 PM	#22
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Well... I mean, it does help you edit, if you're using FCP for example. FCP can connect via firewire to that deck and import the footage and work on it in realtime. It's a DVCPRO-HD deck, so the format it records is the same as what FCP (and Avid and Canopus) edit natively. Is that what you meant?

March 29th, 2006, 08:22 PM	#23
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	Thanks Barry... I thought that the deck out puted 1080 so I was hoping it would record it as well... cool... Anyone have a clue how much the deck costs...

March 29th, 2006, 09:13 PM	#24
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Base MSRP is around $21,000, but you'd also want the firewire and HD-SDI cards, so you're looking at around $30,000 or so.

March 29th, 2006, 09:44 PM	#25
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	Thanks... but just a little bit out of my price range right now...

March 30th, 2006, 09:04 PM	#26
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Barry, Thanks for the info. I was actually wondering about Final Cut handling the 1080 signal coming down the firewire. I know FCP can handle the 720 but wasn't sure how it would deal with the 1080 in realtime. Obviously a Kona Card set up. A client was asking about recording with this method and I realized how murky the actual details were.

October 25th, 2006, 02:34 PM	#29
Brian Langeman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leamington, Ontario, Canada Posts: 25	Witch Panasonic tape deck are we talking about here? Would the Panasonic AJ-SD2551394SDI DVCPRO Digital Video Cassette Recorder work for recording it, or would it only be useable for SD footage?