double image or "Tube Like" smears on a brand new XLH1 at DVinfo.net

Yahel Herzog · February 19th, 2006, 07:50 AM

Hi everyone,

I need help! I was in love with my new XLH1 for a few hours, until I found out that when I pan right or left, tilt up or down I see a 'dragging' image like you used to see while shooting a light source with an old Tube camera, when the light source used to burn a dark image of itself on the tube and stay there for a few seconds even after you've panned away from it. in this case is a complete replica of the image i'm shooting, a double image that's being createt as i pan away. the image draggs along for a brief second only but it looks awful.
Has anyone else noticed it or is this a sigle lemon?
btw - it happens with whichever mode i shoot with - HDV, SD, 16:9, 4:3, 60i, 30f, 24f, steady shot or not.
I still have a few days to return the camera, please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

Yahel

Pete Tomov · February 19th, 2006, 07:58 AM

Have you tried previewing on a different monitor?Maybe it's just the lcd.

Yahel Herzog · February 19th, 2006, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Tomov

Have you tried previewing on a different monitor?Maybe it's just the lcd.

I used a sony 8" HR CRT monitor, one that I have used for years with all formats and that I trust and it's the same problem. I too, at first, thought it was only in the viewfinder. any other ideas?

Kristian Indrehus · February 19th, 2006, 08:38 AM

Check that noise reduction is off. There are two different kinds and nr.1 introduce severe ghosting. I take for granted that you´re not shooting with slow shutter speeds and that you are familiar with the limitations of shooting 25 progressive.

Carl Ny · February 19th, 2006, 08:51 AM

I have also noticed a slight delay/ dragging in the LCD; but there is nothing like that on the final tape.
So I guess the Lcd is a bit slow, when I connected an other lcd on Video out; that one was good.
I also noticed if I was outside shooting in colder weather the lcd also dragged the picture bad...but looked good on tape.
A lovely camera but the lcd is one weak point maybe.

All the best

Carl

Levan Bakhia · February 19th, 2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Kristian Indrehus

Check that noise reduction is off. There are two different kinds and nr.1 introduce severe ghosting. I take for granted that you´re not shooting with slow shutter speeds and that you are familiar with the limitations of shooting 25 progressive.

I am not familiar with limitations of shooting 25p, but would love to be.

Yahel, first of all check the NR1, as was said, because it causes ghosting. Also, I had that type of problem several times, I am not sure but the reason could be the temperature, because I think in my case it happened several times when I was in below the 0 temperature, and then I got in the car, heated the camera and it went away. But again I am not sure, if the cold was the reason.

also, the other day I did some shooting in the office, we have shot 6 scenes. We didn't change anything, but on the next day when we captured it in the computer we found out that the first 4 shots strobing effect, and last two are smooth. I have no idea what happened.

Chris Hurd · February 19th, 2006, 09:26 AM

Is this effect being recorded to tape? Can you see it on playback... or is it present only in the viewfinder / live monitor output, and not being recorded to tape?

Paul Doherty · February 19th, 2006, 10:50 AM

I get this effect in the viewfinder, but NOT on the material recorded to tape. Are you sure it is on your recordings?

This delay/ghosting seems to be a normal feature of the (relatively) poor viewfinder fitted on this (relatively) expensive camcorder.

You get a better viewfinder with the FX1 which is much cheaper.

Kristian Indrehus · February 19th, 2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levan Bakhia

I am not familiar with limitations of shooting 25p, but would love to be.

I guess that came out wrong. I was referring to strobe from 48 or 25 shutter, since Yahel mentioned panning, but since it appears in interlaced too this is obviously not the case.

Yahel Herzog · February 19th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Kristian Indrehus

Check that noise reduction is off. There are two different kinds and nr.1 introduce severe ghosting. I take for granted that you´re not shooting with slow shutter speeds and that you are familiar with the limitations of shooting 25 progressive.

Indeed! it was the NR1!!! I can't believe at the damage this can cause...
As soon as I turned the NR1 to 'off' it went away from the monitor and the recorded tape! there's still a slight 'smear/ghosting effect' in the EVF but I assume that's 'cause it's a cheap thing...

In general guys - can you tell me how happy are you with the camera otherwise? how about some comparisons to the Sony Z1?
I shoot usually with the big boys - Panasonic Varicam and Sony HDCam F900 and recently saw a full length documentary I shot with the Z1 cineframe 25 on a big screen and it looked amazing. what has you experience been with the XLH1 so far?

Thanks,

Yahel

Nick Hiltgen · February 19th, 2006, 07:26 PM

Yahel, I'm in the same boat as you, regarding the larger format cameras. I was very pleased with the 24F cadence as compared to the f900's. I don't have nearly as much experience with the varicam, but from what I've read it's pretty comperable.

Personally I felt like the canon is a stop or so slower then the f900 but it's also 1/3" vs 2/3. I think teh ebst thing you can do is invest in the fu-1000 as that will give you a little closer to what you're used to with the sony's VF.

I took a look at some of the test footage I shot with this camera combined with a mini 35 and was completely in awe of how great the picture looks. I feel like with this camera and a 35 adapter you can get footage that is easily interchangeable with 16mm. and maybe with some practice and what not approach 35mm looking footage.

Kevin Shaw · February 19th, 2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahel Herzog

In general guys - can you tell me how happy are you with the camera otherwise? how about some comparisons to the Sony Z1?

I did some test shots with the XLH1 last week and found the low-light shots to have a lot more graininess than the Sony HDV cameras, to an extent which makes me wonder if I had something set wrong. Other than that and the fact that the XLH1 is front heavy and lacks a flip-out LCD panel, I liked it. If the graininess was a fluke this camera should have a lot of potential.

February 19th, 2006, 07:50 AM	#1
Yahel Herzog Tourist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edgewater, New Jersey Posts: 4	double image or "Tube Like" smears on a brand new XLH1 Hi everyone, I need help! I was in love with my new XLH1 for a few hours, until I found out that when I pan right or left, tilt up or down I see a 'dragging' image like you used to see while shooting a light source with an old Tube camera, when the light source used to burn a dark image of itself on the tube and stay there for a few seconds even after you've panned away from it. in this case is a complete replica of the image i'm shooting, a double image that's being createt as i pan away. the image draggs along for a brief second only but it looks awful. Has anyone else noticed it or is this a sigle lemon? btw - it happens with whichever mode i shoot with - HDV, SD, 16:9, 4:3, 60i, 30f, 24f, steady shot or not. I still have a few days to return the camera, please let me know your thoughts. Thanks Yahel

February 19th, 2006, 09:26 AM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Is this effect being recorded to tape? Can you see it on playback... or is it present only in the viewfinder / live monitor output, and not being recorded to tape? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 19th, 2006, 07:26 PM	#11
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Yahel, I'm in the same boat as you, regarding the larger format cameras. I was very pleased with the 24F cadence as compared to the f900's. I don't have nearly as much experience with the varicam, but from what I've read it's pretty comperable. Personally I felt like the canon is a stop or so slower then the f900 but it's also 1/3" vs 2/3. I think teh ebst thing you can do is invest in the fu-1000 as that will give you a little closer to what you're used to with the sony's VF. I took a look at some of the test footage I shot with this camera combined with a mini 35 and was completely in awe of how great the picture looks. I feel like with this camera and a 35 adapter you can get footage that is easily interchangeable with 16mm. and maybe with some practice and what not approach 35mm looking footage. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

February 19th, 2006, 07:58 AM	#2
Pete Tomov Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 106	Have you tried previewing on a different monitor?Maybe it's just the lcd.

February 19th, 2006, 08:38 AM	#4
Kristian Indrehus Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 123	Check that noise reduction is off. There are two different kinds and nr.1 introduce severe ghosting. I take for granted that you´re not shooting with slow shutter speeds and that you are familiar with the limitations of shooting 25 progressive.

February 19th, 2006, 08:51 AM	#5
Carl Ny Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: World wide Posts: 77	I have also noticed a slight delay/ dragging in the LCD; but there is nothing like that on the final tape. So I guess the Lcd is a bit slow, when I connected an other lcd on Video out; that one was good. I also noticed if I was outside shooting in colder weather the lcd also dragged the picture bad...but looked good on tape. A lovely camera but the lcd is one weak point maybe. All the best Carl

February 19th, 2006, 10:50 AM	#8
Paul Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sherburn, England Posts: 136	I get this effect in the viewfinder, but NOT on the material recorded to tape. Are you sure it is on your recordings? This delay/ghosting seems to be a normal feature of the (relatively) poor viewfinder fitted on this (relatively) expensive camcorder. You get a better viewfinder with the FX1 which is much cheaper.