XL-H1 Overcrank clip!

Barlow Elton · February 16th, 2006, 02:11 AM

Here are the specifics from Compressor:

Name: 1080ito60p conversion
Description: DVCPRO HD 720p60 with audio pass-through
File Extension: mov
Audio: multi-track passthrough
Video Encoder
Format: QT
Width: 1280
Height: 720
Pixel aspect ratio: DVCPRO HD 720p (16:9)
Crop: None
Frame rate: 59.94
Frame Controls:
Retiming: High quality Motion Compensated
Resize Filter: Statistical Prediction
Deinterlace Filter: Motion Compensated
Adaptive Details: On
Antialias: 0
Detail Level: 0
Field Output: Progressive
Codec Type: DVCPRO HD 720p60
Multi-pass: Off, frame reorder: Off
Pixel depth: 24
Spatial quality: 99
Min. Spatial quality: 50
Temporal quality: 0
Min. temporal quality: 50

Antoine Fabi · February 16th, 2006, 09:34 AM

Good job Barlow.

Now if you could find a way to make the colors to pop a little more in the shadows like the HVX...That would be great really. The Canon is very clean. ...but it still look a little too edgy for my taste, so maybe dial down the detail a little would look smoother ?

1-Could you try some different gamma/colors settings in high contrast environment ? I'm curious...

2-What is your workflow ? is it time consuming ? What is the cost of the card ?

thanks

Barlow Elton · February 16th, 2006, 10:17 AM

Thanks Antoine.

In time I'll be testing all kinds of looks in camera. That said, I think color correction has a lot of latitude from even the HDV, so it's always possible to get what you want in post--or at least damn close. Try Magic Bullet or lots of other ways to massage the image.

Workflow:

--I capture and edit in DVCPRO HD from SDI output (whether HDV playback or live signal) with the Kona LH card

--Output 1080i clips for slow motion processing in Compressor

--I convert to 720 60p and then conform to 24fps playback in Cinema Tools

That's about all.

I put up a slow motion HDV clip. It's a guy whooshing down a snow tubing hill. There's a 60p converted h.264 and the 24p conversion in h.264. It was processed with said workflow. The clips are titled:

H1HDVto60ph264.mov
H1HDVto720pOcrankh264.mov

www.homepage.mac.com/mrbarlowelton

Antoine Fabi · February 16th, 2006, 10:21 AM

thanks Barlow,

I can't wait for your tests.

I think that both the HVX and the XLH1 can produce beautifull images, no doubt. They look very different, but good.

Thomas Smet · February 16th, 2006, 12:44 PM

I just noticed that you used DVCpro HD to edit and convert this with. This clip had amazing detail but it could have been even better yet. DVCproHD only records 960x720 pixels compared to the full 1280x720 that you could get in this conversion. It would be interesting to see the results if you converted to a 720p uncompressed codec instead. You should be able to pull even more horizontal detail if you did it that way.

Barlow Elton · February 16th, 2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

I just noticed that you used DVCpro HD to edit and convert this with. This clip had amazing detail but it could have been even better yet. DVCproHD only records 960x720 pixels compared to the full 1280x720 that you could get in this conversion. It would be interesting to see the results if you converted to a 720p uncompressed codec instead. You should be able to pull even more horizontal detail if you did it that way.

I actually forced it to render 1280x720, instead of 920x720 because for some reason I ended up with a squarish frame...which I could correct in QT, but it bothered me.

Uncompressed would look slightly better, for sure.

Thomas Smet · February 16th, 2006, 08:17 PM

I didn't think you could force the DVCpro HD to encode 1280x720. It may just be setting the aspect ratio flag in different ways but still only giving 960x720 pixels of data.

Barlow Elton · February 16th, 2006, 10:50 PM

Well "force" may be the wrong word. I changed it to custom frame size of 1280x720 because I was getting the square picture by the default.

Barlow Elton · February 17th, 2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

I just noticed that you used DVCpro HD to edit and convert this with. This clip had amazing detail but it could have been even better yet. DVCproHD only records 960x720 pixels compared to the full 1280x720 that you could get in this conversion. It would be interesting to see the results if you converted to a 720p uncompressed codec instead. You should be able to pull even more horizontal detail if you did it that way.

I rendered the clip into 720p60 uncompressed. It ended up being 1.18 GB for 8 seconds!!

Here are a few tiffs from it.

www.homepage.mac.com/mrbarlowelton

February 18th, 2006, 12:21 AM

Barlow Elton, I was away from my broadband connection and it wasn't possible to download the last files that you posted and linked in your download account.

Is it possible to link them again? It would be so much appreciated because the subject is very useful to me and to my future investment.

Thank you very much.

Thomas Smet · February 18th, 2006, 12:30 AM

You could also export to photojpeg at 75% or 100%. 100% is 4:4:4 while 75% is 4:2:2

Barlow Elton · February 18th, 2006, 02:23 AM

Some clips are back up Leuname.

Thomas, there's a h.264 from the 60p uncompressed render. It's the original 1280x720, and it's better than the photojpeg at the same bit rate.

It's hard to see the extra horizontal detail over the DVCPRO HD for some reason.

February 18th, 2006, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barlow Elton

Some clips are back up Leuname.

Though away from my office I already began to download them.

Quote:

Thomas, there's a h.264 from the 60p uncompressed render. It's the original 1280x720, and it's better than the photojpeg at the same bit rate.

It's hard to see the extra horizontal detail over the DVCPRO HD for some reason.

Because its size I will download it at last during the next 24 hours. I'm very interested to see the results. Thanks again.

Levan Bakhia · February 19th, 2006, 08:44 AM

OK, great result, very smooth. Now I thought I would apply that procedure in my production and got stuck, on the fact that my camera is european version, thus I only have 50i, not 60i. So, there is no DVCPRO HD 50p. and if I go from 50i to 60p, I don't think will get the same result. Will I?

Barlow Elton · February 19th, 2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levan Bakhia

OK, great result, very smooth. Now I thought I would apply that procedure in my production and got stuck, on the fact that my camera is european version, thus I only have 50i, not 60i. So, there is no DVCPRO HD 50p. and if I go from 50i to 60p, I don't think will get the same result. Will I?

Can't hurt to try. I was actually really surprised to not see a 50p "Easy Setup" in FCP.

I think what you should try is capture your footage in DVCPROHD 1080 50i, render into another codec (uncompressed or photojpeg) at 50fps, and then you (in theory) could get a 2x slowdown after conforming to 25p in Cinema Tools, or you could try the Nattress plug-in using "map frames".

February 16th, 2006, 10:17 AM	#18
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Thanks Antoine. In time I'll be testing all kinds of looks in camera. That said, I think color correction has a lot of latitude from even the HDV, so it's always possible to get what you want in post--or at least damn close. Try Magic Bullet or lots of other ways to massage the image. Workflow: --I capture and edit in DVCPRO HD from SDI output (whether HDV playback or live signal) with the Kona LH card --Output 1080i clips for slow motion processing in Compressor --I convert to 720 60p and then conform to 24fps playback in Cinema Tools That's about all. I put up a slow motion HDV clip. It's a guy whooshing down a snow tubing hill. There's a 60p converted h.264 and the 24p conversion in h.264. It was processed with said workflow. The clips are titled: H1HDVto60ph264.mov H1HDVto720pOcrankh264.mov www.homepage.mac.com/mrbarlowelton Last edited by Barlow Elton; February 16th, 2006 at 11:15 AM.

February 19th, 2006, 08:44 AM	#29
Levan Bakhia Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 230	OK, great result, very smooth. Now I thought I would apply that procedure in my production and got stuck, on the fact that my camera is european version, thus I only have 50i, not 60i. So, there is no DVCPRO HD 50p. and if I go from 50i to 60p, I don't think will get the same result. Will I? __________________ ____________ www.sarke.ge ---------------- ____________

February 16th, 2006, 02:11 AM	#16
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Here are the specifics from Compressor: Name: 1080ito60p conversion Description: DVCPRO HD 720p60 with audio pass-through File Extension: mov Audio: multi-track passthrough Video Encoder Format: QT Width: 1280 Height: 720 Pixel aspect ratio: DVCPRO HD 720p (16:9) Crop: None Frame rate: 59.94 Frame Controls: Retiming: High quality Motion Compensated Resize Filter: Statistical Prediction Deinterlace Filter: Motion Compensated Adaptive Details: On Antialias: 0 Detail Level: 0 Field Output: Progressive Codec Type: DVCPRO HD 720p60 Multi-pass: Off, frame reorder: Off Pixel depth: 24 Spatial quality: 99 Min. Spatial quality: 50 Temporal quality: 0 Min. temporal quality: 50

February 16th, 2006, 09:34 AM	#17
Antoine Fabi Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: sherbrooke (Quebec) Canada Posts: 108	Good job Barlow. Now if you could find a way to make the colors to pop a little more in the shadows like the HVX...That would be great really. The Canon is very clean. ...but it still look a little too edgy for my taste, so maybe dial down the detail a little would look smoother ? 1-Could you try some different gamma/colors settings in high contrast environment ? I'm curious... 2-What is your workflow ? is it time consuming ? What is the cost of the card ? thanks

February 16th, 2006, 10:21 AM	#19
Antoine Fabi Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: sherbrooke (Quebec) Canada Posts: 108	thanks Barlow, I can't wait for your tests. I think that both the HVX and the XLH1 can produce beautifull images, no doubt. They look very different, but good.

February 16th, 2006, 12:44 PM	#20
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	I just noticed that you used DVCpro HD to edit and convert this with. This clip had amazing detail but it could have been even better yet. DVCproHD only records 960x720 pixels compared to the full 1280x720 that you could get in this conversion. It would be interesting to see the results if you converted to a 720p uncompressed codec instead. You should be able to pull even more horizontal detail if you did it that way.

February 16th, 2006, 08:17 PM	#22
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	I didn't think you could force the DVCpro HD to encode 1280x720. It may just be setting the aspect ratio flag in different ways but still only giving 960x720 pixels of data.

February 16th, 2006, 10:50 PM	#23
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Well "force" may be the wrong word. I changed it to custom frame size of 1280x720 because I was getting the square picture by the default.

February 18th, 2006, 12:21 AM	#25
Guest Posts: n/a	Barlow Elton, I was away from my broadband connection and it wasn't possible to download the last files that you posted and linked in your download account. Is it possible to link them again? It would be so much appreciated because the subject is very useful to me and to my future investment. Thank you very much.

February 18th, 2006, 12:30 AM	#26
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	You could also export to photojpeg at 75% or 100%. 100% is 4:4:4 while 75% is 4:2:2

February 18th, 2006, 02:23 AM	#27
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Some clips are back up Leuname. Thomas, there's a h.264 from the 60p uncompressed render. It's the original 1280x720, and it's better than the photojpeg at the same bit rate. It's hard to see the extra horizontal detail over the DVCPRO HD for some reason.