Still image recording with EOS lens at DVinfo.net

Ronald A. Halder · February 6th, 2006, 08:02 AM

H1 does not let you capture still photos to the card with the XL to EF adaptor even with the professional L series canon lens. Is there a way around this problem beside frame grab from the tape? The resolution from my canon 70-200/2.8 is simply fantastic, yet won't let me capture stills, which is a bit sad, but not a complaint, maybe someone has found a way around?

Chris Hurd · February 6th, 2006, 08:38 AM

That is certainly an annoyance. The only lens with which you can capture a still photo to the SD card on the XL H1 is the stock 20x HD lens. All other XL lenses, plus any EOS lens with the EF adapter, return the error of "this lens has no still shooting capability."

Updated 2006.05.14 -- incorrect, see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....4&postcount=13 below

Peter Ferling · February 6th, 2006, 09:40 AM

Interesting. Unlike Sony, whom has to be careful not to undercut their high-end market with their HDV camera's, you would think that Canon is free to go as far as it wants. However, since I shoot with canon digital stills (a G5 and EOS-1Ds), are they worried about taking business from that market with an HDV camera that will pull double-duty? Ah, maybe I'm blowing smoke but it does seem somewhat a deliberate limitation?

Sandor Bondorowsky · February 6th, 2006, 05:57 PM

I noticed you used an EF lens on the XLH1. Do you know how the mm translate in comparison to the stock 20x? Also, do you keep servo zoom and autofocus?

thanks.

Chris Hurd · February 6th, 2006, 06:34 PM

Since there is no zoom motor on any EOS photo lens, that means the zoom rocker on the XL H1 body can serve no purpose for these lenses. Therefore all zooming must be performed manually.

You lose any AF function but if the lens has IS you get to keep that.

The 35mm equivalent for the stock 20x HD lens is 38.9mm to 778mm.

Multiply the focal length of any 35mm lens by a factor of 7.2 times to yield the equivalent field of view when mounted on an XL H1. In other words, a 50mm EOS prime gives the same results as a 360mm lens when mounted on the H1. An 18mm lens delivers 130mm, a 200mm gives you 1440mm and so on.

Sandor Bondorowsky · February 6th, 2006, 06:43 PM

Thanks for the fast response.

I just want to make sure i'm understanding this correctly....

so, a 300mm EF lens, would be 216mm on the XLH1, about 3x tighter than the HD20x?

Ronald A. Halder · February 6th, 2006, 07:52 PM

2160mm Sandor! Extreme telephoto.

Chris Hurd · February 6th, 2006, 07:55 PM

All EOS lenses become telephoto on the Canon XL camcorders.

For the XL H1, multiply the focal length of the 35mm lens by 7.2 times.

That's the equivalent when you put it on the XL H1. So a 300mm lens is like a 2160mm telescope.

Even if you had a wide angle 18mm, it looks like 130mm telephoto on the XL H1.

Sandor Bondorowsky · February 6th, 2006, 10:23 PM

Thank you all for you quick help, that's a great help in my decision making process. Just to fill you in. I am using 6 - XLH1 to cover a musical performance (i am replacing my Sony Z1U's). The tight shot i need from back of house is just a little shy of making it. I was debating using a 1.6x converter just to get me a little more reach, but i can't find one i'm happy with. I am hoping that using an EF lens that give me just a little more range than the stock 108mm will do the trick.

Do any of you have any experience with those lenses on an H1? I want to make sure i can make the pictures match.

Sandor

Ronald A. Halder · February 7th, 2006, 01:18 AM

Picture match should not be a problem, but as long as you remember this becomes a compleatly manual lens and difficult to pull focus while rolling.

Chris Hurd · February 7th, 2006, 09:22 AM

Not to mention, nearly impossible to smoothly change focal length (zooming) while rolling.

Ron Pfister · March 21st, 2006, 12:31 PM

Picture match may actually very well be a problem. I've used both the stock 16x IS II zoom and a variety of EF lenses on my XL-1s, and there's a distinctly different look to the footage taken with the EF lenses. It's more contrasty and leans slightly towards a greenish hue, whereas the stock lens leans toward red, in my experience. I've therefore grown accustomed to manually whitebalance between shots, using a grey card.

This issue is less pronounced when using automatic white balance, but more than likely you'd want to stay away from that feature when filming a stage performance.

Of course, this situation may have changed with the XL-H1. Maybe someone with hands-on experience can chime in (Lauri Kettunen)?

HTH,

Ron

Chris Hurd · May 14th, 2006, 12:03 PM

Wanted to revisit this subject because I gave some misinformation earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald A. Halder

H1 does not let you capture still photos to the card with the XL to EF adaptor even with the professional L series canon lens. Is there a way around this problem beside frame grab from the tape?

My reply which was in error:

Quote:

The only lens with which you can capture a still photo to the SD card on the XL H1 is the stock 20x HD lens. All other XL lenses, plus any EOS lens with the EF adapter, return the error of "this lens has no still shooting capability."

Boy, was I wrong about this -- yes you *can* record still images to the SD card with any lens including all 35mm EOS still photo lenses. There's a very simple trick which allows you to do this.

First, locate the Tape / Card switch on the camera and set it to Tape. Yes that's Tape, not Card.

Next, go to the Menu under Recording Setup and select "Still I. Rec" to On, or if you want, to On + CP Data. Then set the image size and quality, also in the Recording Setup menu. Size L (1920x1080), Quality SF (least compression) is the way to go.

What this does is it enables still photo recording to the memory card even though the camera is in the Tape (not Card) recording mode. That's it, now you can record still photos to the memory card no matter which lens is on the XL H1. If you had selected Card recording, you'd be limited to using only the stock 20x HD lens that came with the camera (presumably because it has a mechanical shutter and all the other lenses to date do not). However with the camera set to Tape recording and the Still Image Record option selected, you can get a still image on the card with any lens. If you chose the "On + CP Data" option, then the camera writes whatever custom preset data you're currently using as additional files which go with that image. You get a text file detailing the CP settings and a .CPF file that you can transfer to and from any XL H1, making it easy to share presets with others. Very handy, very powerful.

The only real drawback to this method involves the way the camera processes the still image. When set to Card record mode, the XL H1 processes the image as a still photo with the correct color space for printing a hard copy... in other words, processed as a photograph. When set to Tape record mode, the XL H1 processes the image as a frame grab in the correct color space for video, which is different from photo. You can print this image but it won't look the same as it would have looked when processed in camera as a still photo, because they are after all two completely different color spaces.

Bill Taka · May 14th, 2006, 12:34 PM

Chris, if I set the "Still I. Rec" to On, does this effect the still recording on the card in the standard mode or would I have to go back to the menu and set it back to use the std lens card mode? Also will the color space effect the resolution loss? .... Man, am I lazy!!

Chris Hurd · May 14th, 2006, 12:52 PM

Hi Bill,

Sorry but I'm not sure what you mean by "does this effect the still recording on the card in the standard mode." Do you mean the non-HD standard definition DV mode, or the standard Card recording mode? Either way there is no difference... once the Still Image Record option is selected, it's available in either HD or DV mode and it doesn't affect Card recording at all. When you switch the camera to Card record mode, it will adjust to whatever settings you previously specified for that mode and process the image as a printable still photo.

Color space does not affect still image resolution loss. Unfortunately even the "Super Fine" quality setting, which is the best available in the H1, will in fact exhibit some typical JPEG artifacts. I wish there was a RAW mode on this thing like other Canon D-SLRs and certain PowerShot digicams.

February 6th, 2006, 08:02 AM	#1
Ronald A. Halder New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dhaka, Bangladesh Posts: 22	Still image recording with EOS lens H1 does not let you capture still photos to the card with the XL to EF adaptor even with the professional L series canon lens. Is there a way around this problem beside frame grab from the tape? The resolution from my canon 70-200/2.8 is simply fantastic, yet won't let me capture stills, which is a bit sad, but not a complaint, maybe someone has found a way around?

February 6th, 2006, 08:38 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	That is certainly an annoyance. The only lens with which you can capture a still photo to the SD card on the XL H1 is the stock 20x HD lens. All other XL lenses, plus any EOS lens with the EF adapter, return the error of "this lens has no still shooting capability." Updated 2006.05.14 -- incorrect, see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....4&postcount=13 below __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 6th, 2006, 05:57 PM	#4
Sandor Bondorowsky New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 18	EOS lens on XLH1 I noticed you used an EF lens on the XLH1. Do you know how the mm translate in comparison to the stock 20x? Also, do you keep servo zoom and autofocus? thanks.

February 6th, 2006, 06:34 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Since there is no zoom motor on any EOS photo lens, that means the zoom rocker on the XL H1 body can serve no purpose for these lenses. Therefore all zooming must be performed manually. You lose any AF function but if the lens has IS you get to keep that. The 35mm equivalent for the stock 20x HD lens is 38.9mm to 778mm. Multiply the focal length of any 35mm lens by a factor of 7.2 times to yield the equivalent field of view when mounted on an XL H1. In other words, a 50mm EOS prime gives the same results as a 360mm lens when mounted on the H1. An 18mm lens delivers 130mm, a 200mm gives you 1440mm and so on. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 6th, 2006, 06:43 PM	#6
Sandor Bondorowsky New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 18	EF lenses on XL Thanks for the fast response. I just want to make sure i'm understanding this correctly.... so, a 300mm EF lens, would be 216mm on the XLH1, about 3x tighter than the HD20x?

February 6th, 2006, 09:40 AM	#3
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Interesting. Unlike Sony, whom has to be careful not to undercut their high-end market with their HDV camera's, you would think that Canon is free to go as far as it wants. However, since I shoot with canon digital stills (a G5 and EOS-1Ds), are they worried about taking business from that market with an HDV camera that will pull double-duty? Ah, maybe I'm blowing smoke but it does seem somewhat a deliberate limitation?

February 6th, 2006, 07:52 PM	#7
Ronald A. Halder New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dhaka, Bangladesh Posts: 22	2160mm Sandor! Extreme telephoto.

February 6th, 2006, 07:55 PM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	All EOS lenses become telephoto on the Canon XL camcorders. For the XL H1, multiply the focal length of the 35mm lens by 7.2 times. That's the equivalent when you put it on the XL H1. So a 300mm lens is like a 2160mm telescope. Even if you had a wide angle 18mm, it looks like 130mm telephoto on the XL H1. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 6th, 2006, 10:23 PM	#9
Sandor Bondorowsky New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 18	EOS lenses on XLH1 Thank you all for you quick help, that's a great help in my decision making process. Just to fill you in. I am using 6 - XLH1 to cover a musical performance (i am replacing my Sony Z1U's). The tight shot i need from back of house is just a little shy of making it. I was debating using a 1.6x converter just to get me a little more reach, but i can't find one i'm happy with. I am hoping that using an EF lens that give me just a little more range than the stock 108mm will do the trick. Do any of you have any experience with those lenses on an H1? I want to make sure i can make the pictures match. Sandor

February 7th, 2006, 01:18 AM	#10
Ronald A. Halder New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dhaka, Bangladesh Posts: 22	Picture match should not be a problem, but as long as you remember this becomes a compleatly manual lens and difficult to pull focus while rolling.

February 7th, 2006, 09:22 AM	#11
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Not to mention, nearly impossible to smoothly change focal length (zooming) while rolling. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 21st, 2006, 12:31 PM	#12
Ron Pfister Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Basel area, Switzerland Posts: 285	Picture match may actually very well be a problem. I've used both the stock 16x IS II zoom and a variety of EF lenses on my XL-1s, and there's a distinctly different look to the footage taken with the EF lenses. It's more contrasty and leans slightly towards a greenish hue, whereas the stock lens leans toward red, in my experience. I've therefore grown accustomed to manually whitebalance between shots, using a grey card. This issue is less pronounced when using automatic white balance, but more than likely you'd want to stay away from that feature when filming a stage performance. Of course, this situation may have changed with the XL-H1. Maybe someone with hands-on experience can chime in (Lauri Kettunen)? HTH, Ron __________________ Ronald P. Pfister halimedia - digital solutions and services www.halimedia.com

May 14th, 2006, 12:34 PM	#14
Bill Taka Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 82	Chris, if I set the "Still I. Rec" to On, does this effect the still recording on the card in the standard mode or would I have to go back to the menu and set it back to use the std lens card mode? Also will the color space effect the resolution loss? .... Man, am I lazy!!

May 14th, 2006, 12:52 PM	#15
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Bill, Sorry but I'm not sure what you mean by "does this effect the still recording on the card in the standard mode." Do you mean the non-HD standard definition DV mode, or the standard Card recording mode? Either way there is no difference... once the Still Image Record option is selected, it's available in either HD or DV mode and it doesn't affect Card recording at all. When you switch the camera to Card record mode, it will adjust to whatever settings you previously specified for that mode and process the image as a printable still photo. Color space does not affect still image resolution loss. Unfortunately even the "Super Fine" quality setting, which is the best available in the H1, will in fact exhibit some typical JPEG artifacts. I wish there was a RAW mode on this thing like other Canon D-SLRs and certain PowerShot digicams. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!