Purple and green borders are killing me!!! at DVinfo.net

Michael Karrer · January 27th, 2006, 05:56 AM

I got my "european" PAL XL-H1 yesterday - so far so good. Unpacked everything hooked up the cam and captured straight into vegas.

And there they are - HUGE magenta and green borders between black and white surfaces (black frame of my monitor to white wall in the background - black chair to white wall...)

Is there any chance to avoid that -
Is that normal or is this very extreme with my cam??? -
or in other words - can i go to the canon support and they can fix that or at least make it a little better? - .... pretty chaotic thoughts going on in my head...

Links to some still pics:
(Settigs doesent matter / appears in all modes with all settings so far)
http://www.actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_1.jpg
http://www.actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_2.jpg

Nikial Kabel · January 27th, 2006, 06:39 AM

Holy @#%# Yea thats not a good sign, take that thing in man.

Jimmy McKenzie · January 27th, 2006, 07:49 AM

Given the relatively balanced bounced light you have set up for the demo shots, this amount of C.A. seems to be excessive. It would be quite revealing to see a side by side with 2 H1s.

I sure hope the Canon optics aren't on a path toward this ugly malaise such as has been seen with other manufacturers.

http://www.canon.com/bctv/faq/chrab.html

Michael Karrer · January 27th, 2006, 08:44 AM

I took the cam out to shoot some trees and stuff - the same amount of purple and green fringing - THIS SUCKS - sorry but - THIS SUCKS!!!

Am I really the first and only one who got this problem?

What do you think are this pink and green horrible thick borders from the lens or from the chip?

I really hope that canon sees this extreme CA as an issue and not an "NORMAL" amount - if this is what this cam does i really regred that i bought one...

Anybody any idea - did i miss something - some setting or firmware upgrade?

*feeling heavily depressed*

Jonas Nystrom · January 27th, 2006, 08:47 AM

Have look, most abberation of the HDV cams. But also best resolution and Low-light. I Also experienced som CA behind black surface and borders.

http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?pos=|36|125&nav_id=125

All the Best // Jonas

Lauri Kettunen · January 27th, 2006, 08:49 AM

Michael, definitely the sample you've posted look akward. I have not noticed anything similar with my XL H1.

To remove the possibility that the problem is created somewhere after taking the footage (say by the codec of your edit system), download the Console program from Canon US pages. Then store footages directly to the hard disk, and check with Console preview whether the magenta and green borders are there.

If the borders are still there, then try different kind of adjustments of the custom presents (the Console gives you a preview of different adjustments) to check how they affect the image. Although Im not able to say where this effect is generated, would not be surprised if you had to (and are able to) finetune your camera to get a satisfactory output.

Jonas Nystrom · January 27th, 2006, 09:03 AM

Lauri - Didn't you say in a earlier post that experienced AC on 20X at wide? How did you get rid of these?

Peter Ferling · January 27th, 2006, 09:51 AM

Anyway you can try this with a different lens? Your right though, it sucks. Keep us posted.

Pete Bauer · January 27th, 2006, 10:03 AM

Might be worth a try to do a manual back-focus, if you haven't already done so.

Shannon Rawls · January 27th, 2006, 10:13 AM

Michael,

What program did yo run these image clips through?
I'm trying to reproduce the problem with my XL-H1, but I am not getting the same results as you.

Can we have some snapshots that come directly from the camera to take a look at? I'd like to see the raw unaltered images and try and setup the same shot here at my office.

The EXIF data on these images indicate these photos are not directly from a Canon XL-H1.

- ShannonRawls.com

Michael Karrer · January 27th, 2006, 10:49 AM

Thanks for all the help!

I tracked it down:

It's all on the left side in the image (as seen by the audience). If an object is in the middle or on the right side CA is ok in the middle its pretty good - on the right side there is a visible green border but still acceptable.

BUT then there is this *&%#% left side of the image (with the lens at full wide angle) - horrible a thick mangenta border on the right side of the object and a not so but still pretty thick green border on right side... *snief*
it gets better if i zoom in but still way too much magenta for my taste - hopefully for canon too and not just for me!

I did FB at Auto will do it manualy too right now - downloaded and used the console programm for the tests - Some of these days...

Michael Karrer · January 27th, 2006, 11:44 AM

Here are the links to direct (photo function) captures of the problem - thanks shanon for the hint.

http://actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_a.JPG
http://actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_b.JPG
http://actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_c.JPG

it is a little better now - fb adustments and so
BUT i'am still afraid of turning the saturation up ... there is this ugly huge magenta monster waiting just right next to the edge of this suspicious scarf...

Jacob Mason · January 27th, 2006, 12:00 PM

In the DVX boards I also addressed my concerns for CA/"purple fringing", I used cropped copies of the sample frame grabs captured by the 4 cam shootout as examples.
HERE ARE THE IMAGES. IMO, when compared to one another in this set of cirumstances, the H1 performed the best. Not too far behind were the Z1 and HD100, and then the HVX exhibited the most amount of CA, very heavy around the light source.
Unfortunately, this particular entry on the HVX boards didn't really get much of a response, and neither did a previous entry from another test. I think it's a sensitive subject or something, maybe it's just not important on the small screen, I don't know.
Thanks for your post Michael.

Lauri Kettunen · January 27th, 2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas Nystrom

Lauri - Didn't you say in a earlier post that experienced AC on 20X at wide? How did you get rid of these?

Jonas, yes, but I have not seen myself anything as bad as Michael's example. Second -not sure this is right- but have an impression, once I got the colors fine tuned, the problem diminished. (I'll test this) Still, the wide end is where CA seems to appear.

Barry Green · January 27th, 2006, 08:16 PM

Michael -- were these shots at full telephoto? If at 100% telephoto it wouldn't be too worrisome. But if this is happening at 1/3 of the way through the zoom range, then you might want to take it to your dealer and ask to see another lens.

January 27th, 2006, 05:56 AM	#1
Michael Karrer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Gleisdorf Austria Posts: 29	Purple and green borders are killing me!!! I got my "european" PAL XL-H1 yesterday - so far so good. Unpacked everything hooked up the cam and captured straight into vegas. And there they are - HUGE magenta and green borders between black and white surfaces (black frame of my monitor to white wall in the background - black chair to white wall...) Is there any chance to avoid that - Is that normal or is this very extreme with my cam??? - or in other words - can i go to the canon support and they can fix that or at least make it a little better? - .... pretty chaotic thoughts going on in my head... Links to some still pics: (Settigs doesent matter / appears in all modes with all settings so far) http://www.actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_1.jpg http://www.actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_2.jpg

January 27th, 2006, 08:44 AM	#4
Michael Karrer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Gleisdorf Austria Posts: 29	Canon Support In Austria - NOT TOO GOOD I took the cam out to shoot some trees and stuff - the same amount of purple and green fringing - THIS SUCKS - sorry but - THIS SUCKS!!! Am I really the first and only one who got this problem? What do you think are this pink and green horrible thick borders from the lens or from the chip? I really hope that canon sees this extreme CA as an issue and not an "NORMAL" amount - if this is what this cam does i really regred that i bought one... Anybody any idea - did i miss something - some setting or firmware upgrade? feeling heavily depressed

January 27th, 2006, 08:47 AM	#5
Jonas Nystrom Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 306	H1 Abberation Have look, most abberation of the HDV cams. But also best resolution and Low-light. I Also experienced som CA behind black surface and borders. http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?pos=\|36\|125&nav_id=125 All the Best // Jonas __________________ Jonas Nyström, DoP :: HOT SHOT® SWEDEN :: www.hotshot.nu :: RED #1567, RED 18-50mm T3 :: XL A1, Letus Extreme :: XL H1, 20X & 6X lens (for sale) :: www.vimeo.com/nystrom

January 27th, 2006, 09:03 AM	#7
Jonas Nystrom Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 306	Snow Abberation Lauri - Didn't you say in a earlier post that experienced AC on 20X at wide? How did you get rid of these? __________________ Jonas Nyström, DoP :: HOT SHOT® SWEDEN :: www.hotshot.nu :: RED #1567, RED 18-50mm T3 :: XL A1, Letus Extreme :: XL H1, 20X & 6X lens (for sale) :: www.vimeo.com/nystrom

January 27th, 2006, 10:03 AM	#9
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Might be worth a try to do a manual back-focus, if you haven't already done so. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

January 27th, 2006, 06:39 AM	#2
Nikial Kabel Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 37	Holy @#%# Yea thats not a good sign, take that thing in man.

January 27th, 2006, 07:49 AM	#3
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	Given the relatively balanced bounced light you have set up for the demo shots, this amount of C.A. seems to be excessive. It would be quite revealing to see a side by side with 2 H1s. I sure hope the Canon optics aren't on a path toward this ugly malaise such as has been seen with other manufacturers. http://www.canon.com/bctv/faq/chrab.html

January 27th, 2006, 08:49 AM	#6
Lauri Kettunen Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kangasala, Finland Posts: 445	Michael, definitely the sample you've posted look akward. I have not noticed anything similar with my XL H1. To remove the possibility that the problem is created somewhere after taking the footage (say by the codec of your edit system), download the Console program from Canon US pages. Then store footages directly to the hard disk, and check with Console preview whether the magenta and green borders are there. If the borders are still there, then try different kind of adjustments of the custom presents (the Console gives you a preview of different adjustments) to check how they affect the image. Although Im not able to say where this effect is generated, would not be surprised if you had to (and are able to) finetune your camera to get a satisfactory output.

January 27th, 2006, 09:51 AM	#8
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Anyway you can try this with a different lens? Your right though, it sucks. Keep us posted.

January 27th, 2006, 10:13 AM	#10
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Michael, What program did yo run these image clips through? I'm trying to reproduce the problem with my XL-H1, but I am not getting the same results as you. Can we have some snapshots that come directly from the camera to take a look at? I'd like to see the raw unaltered images and try and setup the same shot here at my office. The EXIF data on these images indicate these photos are not directly from a Canon XL-H1. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 27th, 2006, 10:49 AM	#11
Michael Karrer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Gleisdorf Austria Posts: 29	Thanks for all the help! I tracked it down: It's all on the left side in the image (as seen by the audience). If an object is in the middle or on the right side CA is ok in the middle its pretty good - on the right side there is a visible green border but still acceptable. BUT then there is this &%#% left side of the image (with the lens at full wide angle) - horrible a thick mangenta border on the right side of the object and a not so but still pretty thick green border on right side... snief* it gets better if i zoom in but still way too much magenta for my taste - hopefully for canon too and not just for me! I did FB at Auto will do it manualy too right now - downloaded and used the console programm for the tests - Some of these days...

January 27th, 2006, 11:44 AM	#12
Michael Karrer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Gleisdorf Austria Posts: 29	Here are the links to direct (photo function) captures of the problem - thanks shanon for the hint. http://actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_a.JPG http://actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_b.JPG http://actimation.com/fileadmin/xlh1_c.JPG it is a little better now - fb adustments and so BUT i'am still afraid of turning the saturation up ... there is this ugly huge magenta monster waiting just right next to the edge of this suspicious scarf...

January 27th, 2006, 12:00 PM	#13
Jacob Mason Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 205	tried to address the significance of this same issue in the DVX boards In the DVX boards I also addressed my concerns for CA/"purple fringing", I used cropped copies of the sample frame grabs captured by the 4 cam shootout as examples. HERE ARE THE IMAGES. IMO, when compared to one another in this set of cirumstances, the H1 performed the best. Not too far behind were the Z1 and HD100, and then the HVX exhibited the most amount of CA, very heavy around the light source. Unfortunately, this particular entry on the HVX boards didn't really get much of a response, and neither did a previous entry from another test. I think it's a sensitive subject or something, maybe it's just not important on the small screen, I don't know. Thanks for your post Michael.

January 27th, 2006, 08:16 PM	#15
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Michael -- were these shots at full telephoto? If at 100% telephoto it wouldn't be too worrisome. But if this is happening at 1/3 of the way through the zoom range, then you might want to take it to your dealer and ask to see another lens.