XL-H1 Street Price

[Hse Kha]

Right now it is selling strictly for $8999.

But 1-2 months from now, what do you reckon the street price of it will settle at? Anyone know the dealer margin on this camera? If it is the same as the XL-2, then I would guess that it will be obtainable for around $7000 or so.

What do you guys think?

[Ron Pfister]

What I can tell you is the pitch from the CPS (Canon Professional Services) rep here in Switzerland: with the introduction of the XL H1, Canon is in the process of selecting/building a network of dealers that can truly provide full service for the intended professional clientel of this product. Such a network of professional Canon video dealers is inexistent in many countries, and its building (complete with sales rep and tech support staff training) is costly. As a result, I was told, the XL H1 will sell exclusively through this 'pro'-channel at the official Canon list price.

Whether or not this situation will change in the future, will largely depend on the popularity of the camera. I'm convinced that a fair amount was invested in R&D of this product, and Canon will aim to recover this possibly rather more aggressively than they have done in the past. For comparison, it may be worth while to look at the D-SLR market, where Canon charges a premium for their professional products compared to Nikon. If they can establish themselves in the lower-end pro-video market as a technological trend-setter (for which the XL H1 is a good start), the attractive street prices of past XL-models may very well not be repeating themselves.

I hope not, but that's the pitch I got from Canon here in Switzerland, and I'm quite confident that this is at least the aim of Canon in most European countries.

HTH,

Ron

[Shannon Rawls]

I paid $4900.00 (exactly) for the Sony Z1U the day it came out in January 2005 from a reputable retailer (EVS).

One year later....

It still sells for $4900.00 (minimum) from all "REPUTABLE" retailers.

So now we have to define the term "Street Price". Because where I come from, that means stolen $4!^ or the ones that fell off the back of the truck and my homeboy Terrance happens to have some in the trunk of his Cadillac. *smile*

Now, if you're considering "Street Price" to be the ones sold on eBay or from these questionable retailers who lie about being authorized, then....well, yea, you can get a new Z1U for $4500 new today. And you better pray you get everything in the box it's supposed to come with.

However for the reputable retailers, the Sony Z1U is still $5000 bucks one year later.

-------------fast forward to the new Canon XL-H1--------------

It sells for $8,999.99. Not one penny less.

So historically speaking, in one year...they will cost the same. But I am sure you'll be able to eBay and grab one for about $8400.00 in a year. And honestly, in 1-2 months from now it will be $8999.99 from the trustworthy retailers, but by then, there will be enough grey market/refurbs out there that these sub-par stores will be passing their units off as FACTORY FRESH for about $8,700.00.

MORAL OF THE STORY.....

Don't buy anything that costs more the the average persons monthly Paycheck from the "Street".

You're better off getting a used one from someone who bought theirs from a reputable retailer like B&H or EVS or Samys, then getting a so-called "FACTORY FRESH" one from a shaddy-tree company that's most likely lying about it it's freshness.

- ShannonRawls.com

[Ron Pfister]

Shannon, do you feel adventurous enough to call B&H and telling them that they're a 'questionable retailer'?? They sell the Z1U for USD 4'600 as of this writing...

FWIW,

Ron

[Barry Green]

There's a difference between "minimum advertised price" (MAP) and actual selling price; Sony has established a MAP of $4900 for the Z1. Dealers are free to sell it for less than that, but they cannot advertise it for less than that or they'll put their relationship with the manufacturer in jeopardy.

However, what Canon is doing with the XLH1 is different. They're requiring their dealers to offer at 100% list price. They're not just restricted to advertise it at that price, but they're required to sell it at that price. So you should not ever see a street price one penny less than $8999.99, unless Canon someday lowers the MSRP, but if they do, all dealers will sell it at that new MSRP and not a penny less.

I'm not 100% sure that's entirely legal, seems that it would impede a free market economy to fix the price at a certain level, but regardless, that is the way it is. Street Price and MSRP are going to be the same thing for the XLH1.

[Hse Kha]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

They're requiring their dealers to offer at 100% list price. They're not just restricted to advertise it at that price, but they're required to sell it at that price. So you should not ever see a street price one penny less than $8999.99

How do you know that is a fact? If a dealer told you, then that is in his interest to tell you such things...

I don't know if Canon can force their dealers to do that.

Regardless I wonder what the dealers pay for it. $6000?

[Ron Pfister]

Originally Posted by Hse Kha

Regardless I wonder what the dealers pay for it. $6000?

Dealer prices vary with volume. A dealer that sells a high volume of a certain product (or of a defined line of products that will together count towards volume pricing) will pay less than one that sells a handful a year.

And the higher the price of a product, the higher the margin tends to be. But there are exceptions to this rule.

FWIW, the XL 2 has a dealer single-purchase margin of around 27 %, IIRC.

Regarding the XL H1, time will tell, anyhow. High-volume resellers (such as B&H) will start selling a product as low as they can afford to - to beat the competition. If they can get ahold of it in low-price markets overseas, they will start offering the product in an 'import' (aka Grey Market) variety at lower prices than the units purchased through the official distribution channel. But it's definitely too early to tell if that's going to happen with the XL H1. Unless demand is very strong, it probably won't.

[Paul Doherty]

Originally Posted by Ron Pfister

But it's definitely too early to tell if that's going to happen with the XL H1. Unless demand is very strong, it probably won't.

I can add some minor background, albeit from the UK. I rang one of the main UK Canon dealers to ask about the XL H1 and I asked specifically about early availability in case demand exceeded supply. They told me not to worry, interest was very low and in fact mine was the first call they'd had, so availability wouldn't be a problem.

If that low level of interest is widespread, then possibly the price may come down sooner rather than later. However the XL H1 is so much more expensive than the FX1 and Z1 that I suspect Canon are quite prepared to take the drop in sales which the high price means.

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Hse Kha

How do you know that is a fact? If a dealer told you, then that is in his interest to tell you such things...

Canon representatives at DV Expo said that. And every Canon dealer appears to be abiding by it.

[Shannon Rawls]

Originally Posted by Ron Pfister

Shannon, do you feel adventurous enough to call B&H and telling them that they're a 'questionable retailer'?? They sell the Z1U for USD 4'600 as of this writing...

Don't start none, won't be none Ron.

You know you read where I said B&H is a reputable company. Stop fadanglin' my words.
Also, it's $4900.00 at B&H bro, not 4600. I ain't talking about negotiating prices with them like you were at a flea market. I'm talking about going to their website, adding it to your cart and going through the checkout....it will be $4900 + tax & shipping. And it's the same way if you go to the store. ONLY IF YOU ASK "CAN I GET A BETTER PRICE?" to the salesman will they MAYBE give you a deal. And that's only if he likes you. To get a better price on the internet, you have to email them, and that number changes day to day depending on who read your email and how they feel that day. And even then, you have to CALL YOUR ORDER IN. So save it.

Everybody wants to start Static with Shan it seems. *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

[Ron Pfister]

www.bhphotovideo.com --> type HVR-Z1U in the search field on the left --> scroll down to the 4900 buck variety --> click on 'Email me a better price' --> enter your email address --> check your inbox --> 4599.95 bucks.

Maybe it's just me...

And there's noone behind the scenes answering these requests. It's automated...

And the usual disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with B&H in any way other than being a happy customer for the last umph 14 years or so...

I'm savin' it. Nitie-nite...

[Christopher Glaeser]

> So now we have to define the term "Street Price". Because where I come from, that means stolen $4!^ ...

"Street price is the price at which items actually sell in a free market." — Wikipedia.

Best,
Christopher

[Christopher Glaeser]

>> They're requiring their dealers to offer at 100% list price. They're not just restricted to advertise it at that price, but they're required to sell it at that price.

In the United States and Canada price fixing can be prosecuted as a felony. Under U.S. law, price fixing is illegal if it is intentional and comes about via communication and specific agreement between firms. It is not illegal for a firm to copy the price movements of a de facto market leader (called price leadership). MSRP and MAP are also common practice and legal.

Best,
Christopher

[Shannon Rawls]

It's only illegal if somebody complains. LOL

I don't think any of the retailers are complaining about selling the XL-H1 for top dollar. Especially if they are held to the MAP.

- ShannonRawls.com

[Hse Kha]

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

It's only illegal if somebody complains.

Then I will complain :)

To who though???