XL H1 tape stock ? at DVinfo.net

Bob Buruchian · December 21st, 2005, 04:33 PM

We love the camera, we're going definitely going to buy it, what is the best tapestock to use ?

Thanks Bob

Shannon Rawls · December 21st, 2005, 04:58 PM

I started mine off with Sony Digital Master HDV stock. I had some from my Z1U, so I figure I'd keep it going. Not a drop out yet.

- Shannon

Nick Hiltgen · December 21st, 2005, 05:01 PM

This probably belongs in the "long black line forum" but I'll be sticking with the sony digital master tapes as well, 1 because I like the hard plastic case and 2) if anything ever goes wrong with the tape (drop out whatever) at least I'll know I couldn't have put a *better* tape in.

Ashley Hosking · December 30th, 2005, 09:32 PM

Hi guys I have a large amount of Sony DVCAM 40 Min stock (runs 60 minutes in DV/HDV mode) has anyone ever tried using DVCAM stock for recording HDV? Will it wear the heads more? I have heard alot of rumors of "it will do this to your camera" or "its a great idea" but nothing rock solid.

I'd just rather use all this DVCAM stock (plus it has a sexy blue case for storing the tape in to, bit like a smaller digi beta case) before I start going out and buying HDV Master Stock. For anything mission critical I would probably record to a firestore, citidisk, etc as well as tape.

Any feedback on pros/cons would be great.

Cheers,
Ash

Shannon Rawls · December 30th, 2005, 10:58 PM

Ashley,

Your DVCAM tapes are some of the best MiniDV tapes ever made. Higher tolerances and center of the master spools were utilized when winding DVCAM tapes at the assembly line. Regular low-cost tapes use the beginning and ends of master spools when winding (not a good thing).

YES, USE THOSE is the answer. You can use up the stock ou have and continue to use that same type and only that type for your camera if you wish.

- ShannonRawls.com

Johan Forssblad · December 31st, 2005, 12:41 PM

Hello friends,

I am starting off with the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ tape for our XL H1. So far so good. But maybe we will not know if it is a clever decision until after several years which the following story will tell you ...

It might be a little odd here but I do not want to feed Sony any more. In the end of 1970 I bought Sony 1/4" reel tapes (think the type was SLH or ULH) for my audio recordings. After several years I got terrible problems with high frequent sounds from the heads on all my recordings. It jared upon my ears! It entered the head and was amplified to the speakers. I was using a Sony deck with this Sony tape all the time.

I talked to Sony and they admitted they had problems with these tapes. Despite several years had passed, they gave me new 10,5" metal spools with ULH tape for free, but of course, I lost all my recordings.

Then I bought a new Teac 4-shannel tape deck and started all over again.

Guess what, a few days ago I tried to listen to my old recordings from around 1985 on the Sony ULH tape.
I got to clean the heads every 30 seconds or so to be able to listen to the recordings wihout this terrible noise.
The BASF and AGFA professional tapes show no problems at all on the same deck or on a Nagra IV-S.

Thats why I prefer to buy something else than Sony tapes. On the long black line forum they say Sony uses wet lubrication and several others dry. I don't know if this is the cause of my problems. A wild speculation is perhaps the wet lubrication will not hold over time and age. This is only my guess, perhaps someone else knows more. Unfortunately I have played different brands on the deck but a thorough cleaning does not help more than a minute.

However, I must say the above mentioned Sony tapes are completely different from the mini-DV HDV tapes they manufacture today. But I do not forget this thing.

I like quality products and dislike we are forced to buy new things all the time due to bad quality. Unfortunately a company producing cheap products get away by selling twice to some of us! Don't support this, we have too much waste in this world.

I wish you and the rest of our world a better year 2006!

Michael Galvan · January 30th, 2006, 04:58 PM

Hi,

I have always used Panasonic Master Quality tapes in all of my DV recordings. But as I prep for buying an XL-H1, I need people's thoughts on what is the best tape to use with the camera. I have the Panasonic Advanced Master Quality tapes (which is their top of the line miniDV tapes), but I keep hearing that I should use the Sony Digital Master tapes made for HDV. What should I use?

I really onely want to use one type of tape in my camera, but I have always avoided Sony tapes because of the different lubricants they used. But are these tapes really the best for HDV and DV recording?

Thanks.

Austin Walton · January 30th, 2006, 05:24 PM

I too will shortly be purchasing the XL H1. I was planning on buying the Sony Digital Master HDV tapes (I've seen on this site, and talked to others elsewhere that those are best...consensus?). Where would be the best place to purchase these? I think B & H is only selling single tapes @around $20; does this seem crazy/right? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Vincent Rozenberg · January 30th, 2006, 05:58 PM

Well, to be honest, I always bought cheap Fuji or Panasonic DV tapes, the consumer ones for my XL1, XM1 and now my XL-H1. I've worked a lot with a Sony Z1 and did the same; shot a whole documentary in HDV on 25 Fuji tapes 3 dollars a piece..

At the moment i'm shooting a TV show on the XL-H1 and the broadcaster is providing the tapes, Sony DVCAM 40 (60 for DV) min. tapes 15 euros per tape... ouch..

Shannon Rawls · January 30th, 2006, 06:48 PM

Michael,
Doean't matter what tape you buy....so long as you STICK WITH IT. *smile*

Sony uses a dry lubricant on their more expensive tape stock....have been for 6 years.

I use Sony tapes because they are labeled HDV. I'm corny like that and do not take chances. But I'm sure cheap stuff is fine. However, think about this:

Have you noticed cheap tape stock is always the tape stock that has dropouts? How many times have you heard of a dropout from the most expensive tapes? I sure haven't, and here's why....

Most good ME tape stock is the same as the cheap ME tape, usually. They use HUGE REELS of it (10ft' high). However the expensive stock gets the center of the reel. The cheap tape gets the beginning and ends...where the tape is stressed and sometimes breaks. If a reel breaks, they fix it. Where it is mended/fixed that goes to a cheap tape and undoubtedly gives you a dropout when recorded over. People blame their cameras for the dropout so they run out and spend more money on cleaners. Never realizing they just recorded over a tape splice. The expensive tapes never have splices in them and the tape was never stressed in the factory, so you have a better chance.

It's all a game with these companies. Once you realize who and what you're dealing with, then you understand the rules of the game and you better protect yourself and your investments.

Since you are using the best Panasonic tape you can buy......you're fine. Keep using it. Just don't change horses mid-stream.

- ShannonRawls.com

Michael Galvan · January 30th, 2006, 09:24 PM

Thanks Shannon. My XL-H1 comes in tomorrow, so I want to use the right tapes right from the start. You say Sony uses a dry lubricrant on their more expensive tapes. Do you know whether their Digital Master tapes for HDV uses a dry lubricant? I'm leaning towards them ...

Ray Boltz · January 31st, 2006, 02:12 AM

Now you have me curious. Canon sells tape under accessories for the XL H1. Has anyone out there tried Canon's?

Shawn Alyasiri · January 31st, 2006, 11:43 AM

Sorry if this was already covered... I'm obviously getting close if I'm asking this...

I have always used Sony PR60's - with JVC DV500/550's, PD150's, the Sony Z1 & the JVC HD100. So far - very good luck.

Is it safe to use Sony's with the H1 as well, if you start and stay with them?

I've been away from Canon for a while, but I do believe I used Sony tapes with my XL1, way back when as well...

ADDL. OFFTOPIC QUESTION: Was looking for all of the input/output ports. The site lists composite/S-vid, etc. I assume these come from a breakout cable that hangs off the back, or am I missing the hard jacks? I would want to monitor a composite (or better) feed into a Sony field monitor... Would hope a letterboxed feed would dump out the video out, like the Z1/HD100(?)

Thanks!
Shawn

Shannon Rawls · January 31st, 2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Galvan

Thanks Shannon. My XL-H1 comes in tomorrow, so I want to use the right tapes right from the start. You say Sony uses a dry lubricrant on their more expensive tapes. Do you know whether their Digital Master tapes for HDV uses a dry lubricant? I'm leaning towards them ...

Yes, they are dry. I busted one open to check. *smile*
So are the Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ Master tapes. I busted one of those open as well about 2 years ago.\

- ShannonRawls.com

Shannon Rawls · January 31st, 2006, 12:10 PM

Shawn
Check here for tape stock questions: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=59460

You didn't see the inputs/outputs because they are covered by a cover on the rear passenger side of the camera. No breakout cables at all for SD connections. The only cable that breaks out is the component HD output near the rear licence plate. The composite & s-video are full connecters behind the plastic cover along with 4 RCA jacks for audio as well.

However, be warned, this camera will NOT letterbox the HD or 16:9 SD output like the Sony Z1U will. Always anamorphic, so you better get a 16:9 monitor. *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

December 21st, 2005, 04:33 PM	#1
Bob Buruchian New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Boca Raton, Florida Posts: 13	XL H1 tape stock ? We love the camera, we're going definitely going to buy it, what is the best tapestock to use ? Thanks Bob

December 21st, 2005, 04:58 PM	#2
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	I started mine off with Sony Digital Master HDV stock. I had some from my Z1U, so I figure I'd keep it going. Not a drop out yet. - Shannon __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

December 21st, 2005, 05:01 PM	#3
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	This probably belongs in the "long black line forum" but I'll be sticking with the sony digital master tapes as well, 1 because I like the hard plastic case and 2) if anything ever goes wrong with the tape (drop out whatever) at least I'll know I couldn't have put a better tape in. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

December 30th, 2005, 10:58 PM	#5
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Ashley, Your DVCAM tapes are some of the best MiniDV tapes ever made. Higher tolerances and center of the master spools were utilized when winding DVCAM tapes at the assembly line. Regular low-cost tapes use the beginning and ends of master spools when winding (not a good thing). YES, USE THOSE is the answer. You can use up the stock ou have and continue to use that same type and only that type for your camera if you wish. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 30th, 2006, 04:58 PM	#7
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Sony Digital Master or Pana Adv. Master for XL-H1? Hi, I have always used Panasonic Master Quality tapes in all of my DV recordings. But as I prep for buying an XL-H1, I need people's thoughts on what is the best tape to use with the camera. I have the Panasonic Advanced Master Quality tapes (which is their top of the line miniDV tapes), but I keep hearing that I should use the Sony Digital Master tapes made for HDV. What should I use? I really onely want to use one type of tape in my camera, but I have always avoided Sony tapes because of the different lubricants they used. But are these tapes really the best for HDV and DV recording? Thanks. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

December 30th, 2005, 09:32 PM	#4
Ashley Hosking Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	Hi guys I have a large amount of Sony DVCAM 40 Min stock (runs 60 minutes in DV/HDV mode) has anyone ever tried using DVCAM stock for recording HDV? Will it wear the heads more? I have heard alot of rumors of "it will do this to your camera" or "its a great idea" but nothing rock solid. I'd just rather use all this DVCAM stock (plus it has a sexy blue case for storing the tape in to, bit like a smaller digi beta case) before I start going out and buying HDV Master Stock. For anything mission critical I would probably record to a firestore, citidisk, etc as well as tape. Any feedback on pros/cons would be great. Cheers, Ash

December 31st, 2005, 12:41 PM	#6
Johan Forssblad Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vittsjö, SKÅNE, SWEDEN Posts: 266	Hello friends, I am starting off with the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ tape for our XL H1. So far so good. But maybe we will not know if it is a clever decision until after several years which the following story will tell you ... It might be a little odd here but I do not want to feed Sony any more. In the end of 1970 I bought Sony 1/4" reel tapes (think the type was SLH or ULH) for my audio recordings. After several years I got terrible problems with high frequent sounds from the heads on all my recordings. It jared upon my ears! It entered the head and was amplified to the speakers. I was using a Sony deck with this Sony tape all the time. I talked to Sony and they admitted they had problems with these tapes. Despite several years had passed, they gave me new 10,5" metal spools with ULH tape for free, but of course, I lost all my recordings. Then I bought a new Teac 4-shannel tape deck and started all over again. Guess what, a few days ago I tried to listen to my old recordings from around 1985 on the Sony ULH tape. I got to clean the heads every 30 seconds or so to be able to listen to the recordings wihout this terrible noise. The BASF and AGFA professional tapes show no problems at all on the same deck or on a Nagra IV-S. Thats why I prefer to buy something else than Sony tapes. On the long black line forum they say Sony uses wet lubrication and several others dry. I don't know if this is the cause of my problems. A wild speculation is perhaps the wet lubrication will not hold over time and age. This is only my guess, perhaps someone else knows more. Unfortunately I have played different brands on the deck but a thorough cleaning does not help more than a minute. However, I must say the above mentioned Sony tapes are completely different from the mini-DV HDV tapes they manufacture today. But I do not forget this thing. I like quality products and dislike we are forced to buy new things all the time due to bad quality. Unfortunately a company producing cheap products get away by selling twice to some of us! Don't support this, we have too much waste in this world. I wish you and the rest of our world a better year 2006!

January 30th, 2006, 05:24 PM	#8
Austin Walton Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: TX Posts: 66	Tapes I too will shortly be purchasing the XL H1. I was planning on buying the Sony Digital Master HDV tapes (I've seen on this site, and talked to others elsewhere that those are best...consensus?). Where would be the best place to purchase these? I think B & H is only selling single tapes @around $20; does this seem crazy/right? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

January 30th, 2006, 05:58 PM	#9
Vincent Rozenberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 475	Well, to be honest, I always bought cheap Fuji or Panasonic DV tapes, the consumer ones for my XL1, XM1 and now my XL-H1. I've worked a lot with a Sony Z1 and did the same; shot a whole documentary in HDV on 25 Fuji tapes 3 dollars a piece.. At the moment i'm shooting a TV show on the XL-H1 and the broadcaster is providing the tapes, Sony DVCAM 40 (60 for DV) min. tapes 15 euros per tape... ouch..

January 30th, 2006, 06:48 PM	#10
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Michael, Doean't matter what tape you buy....so long as you STICK WITH IT. smile Sony uses a dry lubricant on their more expensive tape stock....have been for 6 years. I use Sony tapes because they are labeled HDV. I'm corny like that and do not take chances. But I'm sure cheap stuff is fine. However, think about this: Have you noticed cheap tape stock is always the tape stock that has dropouts? How many times have you heard of a dropout from the most expensive tapes? I sure haven't, and here's why.... Most good ME tape stock is the same as the cheap ME tape, usually. They use HUGE REELS of it (10ft' high). However the expensive stock gets the center of the reel. The cheap tape gets the beginning and ends...where the tape is stressed and sometimes breaks. If a reel breaks, they fix it. Where it is mended/fixed that goes to a cheap tape and undoubtedly gives you a dropout when recorded over. People blame their cameras for the dropout so they run out and spend more money on cleaners. Never realizing they just recorded over a tape splice. The expensive tapes never have splices in them and the tape was never stressed in the factory, so you have a better chance. It's all a game with these companies. Once you realize who and what you're dealing with, then you understand the rules of the game and you better protect yourself and your investments. Since you are using the best Panasonic tape you can buy......you're fine. Keep using it. Just don't change horses mid-stream. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 30th, 2006, 09:24 PM	#11
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Thanks Shannon. My XL-H1 comes in tomorrow, so I want to use the right tapes right from the start. You say Sony uses a dry lubricrant on their more expensive tapes. Do you know whether their Digital Master tapes for HDV uses a dry lubricant? I'm leaning towards them ... __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

January 31st, 2006, 02:12 AM	#12
Ray Boltz Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Clifton Park, NY Posts: 50	Now you have me curious. Canon sells tape under accessories for the XL H1. Has anyone out there tried Canon's?

January 31st, 2006, 11:43 AM	#13
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	Tape Brand with H1? Sorry if this was already covered... I'm obviously getting close if I'm asking this... I have always used Sony PR60's - with JVC DV500/550's, PD150's, the Sony Z1 & the JVC HD100. So far - very good luck. Is it safe to use Sony's with the H1 as well, if you start and stay with them? I've been away from Canon for a while, but I do believe I used Sony tapes with my XL1, way back when as well... ADDL. OFFTOPIC QUESTION: Was looking for all of the input/output ports. The site lists composite/S-vid, etc. I assume these come from a breakout cable that hangs off the back, or am I missing the hard jacks? I would want to monitor a composite (or better) feed into a Sony field monitor... Would hope a letterboxed feed would dump out the video out, like the Z1/HD100(?) Thanks! Shawn

January 31st, 2006, 12:10 PM	#15
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Shawn Check here for tape stock questions: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=59460 You didn't see the inputs/outputs because they are covered by a cover on the rear passenger side of the camera. No breakout cables at all for SD connections. The only cable that breaks out is the component HD output near the rear licence plate. The composite & s-video are full connecters behind the plastic cover along with 4 RCA jacks for audio as well. However, be warned, this camera will NOT letterbox the HD or 16:9 SD output like the Sony Z1U will. Always anamorphic, so you better get a 16:9 monitor. smile - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.